Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 80 (8871 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 10-21-2018 11:35 PM
217 online now:
dwise1, RAZD (2 members, 215 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: paradigm of types
Post Volume:
Total: 840,522 Year: 15,345/29,783 Month: 1,289/1,502 Week: 46/241 Day: 46/36 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1
...
56
7
89
...
15Next
Author Topic:   Is my rock designed?
subbie
Member
Posts: 3508
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 91 of 219 (638554)
10-23-2011 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by SavageD
10-23-2011 3:38 PM


Re: is my rock design
SavageD writes:

Btw, why do you say that my comment is an "assemblage of nonsense"?


This:

SavageD writes:

It's just imaginary, like my house, it wasn't designed...it assembled itself.


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by SavageD, posted 10-23-2011 3:38 PM SavageD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by SavageD, posted 10-23-2011 3:55 PM subbie has responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 3962
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 92 of 219 (638555)
10-23-2011 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by SavageD
10-23-2011 3:38 PM


Re: is my rock design
Houses show evidence of design.

Rocks, puddles, cows, or trees don't.

What is your specific point?


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

Moreover that view is a blatantly anti-relativistic one. I'm rather inclined to think that space being relative to time and time relative to location should make such a naive hankering to pin-point an ultimate origin of anything, an aspiration that is not even wrong.

Well, Larni, let's say I much better know what I don't want to say than how exactly say what I do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by SavageD, posted 10-23-2011 3:38 PM SavageD has not yet responded

    
SavageD
Member (Idle past 1677 days)
Posts: 59
From: Trinbago
Joined: 04-16-2011


Message 93 of 219 (638558)
10-23-2011 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by subbie
10-23-2011 3:45 PM


Re: is my rock design
Ok then, why don't you agree that a house can assemble itself?

For anyone else willing to jump into this conversation. I would like to have this conversation with subbie. Him and him alone. I cannot argue with 2 persons at on time.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by subbie, posted 10-23-2011 3:45 PM subbie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by subbie, posted 10-23-2011 4:00 PM SavageD has responded
 Message 95 by Admin, posted 10-23-2011 4:06 PM SavageD has not yet responded
 Message 96 by Theodoric, posted 10-23-2011 4:08 PM SavageD has responded

    
subbie
Member
Posts: 3508
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 94 of 219 (638559)
10-23-2011 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by SavageD
10-23-2011 3:55 PM


Re: is my rock design
I said it was nonsense, why would I agree with it?

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist


This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by SavageD, posted 10-23-2011 3:55 PM SavageD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by SavageD, posted 10-23-2011 4:10 PM subbie has responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12560
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


(1)
Message 95 of 219 (638560)
10-23-2011 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by SavageD
10-23-2011 3:55 PM


Moderator On Duty
SavageD writes:

Ok then, why don't you agree that a house can assemble itself?

If you're making some non-obvious point then obviously it just isn't coming across and you should explain.

If you actually believe that houses can assemble themselves and are incredulous that anyone could believe otherwise, then please just stop posting in this thread. We don't do nonsense here.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by SavageD, posted 10-23-2011 3:55 PM SavageD has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5777
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 96 of 219 (638561)
10-23-2011 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by SavageD
10-23-2011 3:55 PM


Re: is my rock design
For anyone else willing to jump into this conversation. I would like to have this conversation with subbie. Him and him alone. I cannot argue with 2 persons at on time.

Tough luck. That isn't how this forum works. If that is what you want try to start a Great Debate thread.

Ok then, why don't you agree that a house can assemble itself?

Why don't you provide some evidence that this can happen? Because I am quite sure that evidence can be provided that houses are not self assembling.

Edited by Theodoric, : db codes

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by SavageD, posted 10-23-2011 3:55 PM SavageD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by SavageD, posted 10-23-2011 4:24 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
SavageD
Member (Idle past 1677 days)
Posts: 59
From: Trinbago
Joined: 04-16-2011


Message 97 of 219 (638562)
10-23-2011 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by subbie
10-23-2011 4:00 PM


Re: is my rock design
Interesting, you say that you do not agree that my house could have assembled itself because you said it was "nonsense".

...I have nothing more to say.

Edited by SavageD, : clarification


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by subbie, posted 10-23-2011 4:00 PM subbie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by subbie, posted 10-23-2011 4:15 PM SavageD has not yet responded

    
subbie
Member
Posts: 3508
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 98 of 219 (638563)
10-23-2011 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by SavageD
10-23-2011 4:10 PM


Re: is my rock design
Well, thanks for playing.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist


This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by SavageD, posted 10-23-2011 4:10 PM SavageD has not yet responded

  
SavageD
Member (Idle past 1677 days)
Posts: 59
From: Trinbago
Joined: 04-16-2011


Message 99 of 219 (638564)
10-23-2011 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Theodoric
10-23-2011 4:08 PM


Re: is my rock design
There was a time I came here and posted frequently, and each time I would give my reasoning as to how you could determine that something could be the product of an intelligent agent.

Each time I made a post it would seem that I would also attract "a lot of people" to my conversations. So, Whats wrong with asking to have a conversation with one person?

Regardless, I see no point in revealing why "something" could be the product of an intelligent agent...It would only fall on deaf ears.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Theodoric, posted 10-23-2011 4:08 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Larni, posted 10-23-2011 4:45 PM SavageD has not yet responded
 Message 101 by Admin, posted 10-23-2011 4:46 PM SavageD has not yet responded
 Message 102 by subbie, posted 10-23-2011 4:58 PM SavageD has not yet responded
 Message 105 by IamJoseph, posted 10-23-2011 9:48 PM SavageD has not yet responded
 Message 107 by Dawn Bertot, posted 10-23-2011 10:25 PM SavageD has not yet responded

    
Larni
Member
Posts: 3962
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 100 of 219 (638567)
10-23-2011 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by SavageD
10-23-2011 4:24 PM


Re: is my rock design
Typical creo tactic to not supply evidence.

Same avoidance, different creo poster.


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

Moreover that view is a blatantly anti-relativistic one. I'm rather inclined to think that space being relative to time and time relative to location should make such a naive hankering to pin-point an ultimate origin of anything, an aspiration that is not even wrong.

Well, Larni, let's say I much better know what I don't want to say than how exactly say what I do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by SavageD, posted 10-23-2011 4:24 PM SavageD has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Panda, posted 10-23-2011 6:31 PM Larni has not yet responded

    
Admin
Director
Posts: 12560
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


(1)
Message 101 of 219 (638568)
10-23-2011 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by SavageD
10-23-2011 4:24 PM


Re: is my rock design
SavageD writes:

So, Whats wrong with asking to have a conversation with one person?

Nothing. It's called email.

Non-sensical statements tend to draw a lot of attention, not just here but anywhere. If you don't like all the attention then try to say things that make sense. I'm sure that when you apply for a building permit for your next house that you won't be telling the building department that the builder is the house. If you wouldn't speak this nonsense in public then don't speak it here, either. Capiche?


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by SavageD, posted 10-23-2011 4:24 PM SavageD has not yet responded

    
subbie
Member
Posts: 3508
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 102 of 219 (638571)
10-23-2011 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by SavageD
10-23-2011 4:24 PM


Re: is my rock design
SavageD writes:

There was a time I came here and posted frequently, and each time I would give my reasoning as to how you could determine that something could be the product of an intelligent agent.

Then it would be a simple matter to cut and paste those previous posts, or even link to them. I predict you won't do either.


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by SavageD, posted 10-23-2011 4:24 PM SavageD has not yet responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 1638 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 103 of 219 (638574)
10-23-2011 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Larni
10-23-2011 4:45 PM


Re: is my rock design
Larni writes:

Same avoidance...


I have trouble understanding why someone wouldn't just answer the OP's question.
It must be a fundamental part of ID to be able to identify designed objects.

What is going on in their heads to make them post statements like "My house builds itself" rather than posting something like "You measure its complexity using a plexiometer".

If someone asked "How do I tell what colour my car is?" I would simply post the steps required to answer this question.
I would not post "Your car paints itself."


If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Larni, posted 10-23-2011 4:45 PM Larni has not yet responded

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 104 of 219 (638577)
10-23-2011 9:31 PM


There is no such thing as random, nor anything superfluos - else the universe would either not exist or become self destroyed. Random itself, or what is percieved to be so, is a subjective view: random is based on a law which allows it to go any way or manifold ways or unpredictably; such an event has to be factored in. This is the higher thought of it. Once, there was no random! We find that both random and predictable occured where once it did not. Here, one must ask - what caused the predictable and the random?

Further, a rock with free shape and form is NOT random. It is the result where wind and water smashes elements in multi directions, each impact predictable if we knew how to measure every single unique impact and its consequences. Every facet of the rock can be reproduced repeatedly in a lab if we could emulate the same conditions. It woud in fact be an anomaly of science if arock was not exactly as a rock.

What we see as random and accidents must be factored in to occur. In the sme vein, the big bang could not go bang if this was not resultant from an intentionally designed set of laws. How so? We have no alternate to it - consider what can cause a bang; a number of factors come into play, primarilly that at one tme nothing we can point to as its cause; whatever we point to never existed at the BB point!

A coconut falling on the head and killing someone is NOT random.


    
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 105 of 219 (638578)
10-23-2011 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by SavageD
10-23-2011 4:24 PM


Re: is my rock design
quote:
I see no point in revealing why "something" could be the product of an intelligent agent...It would only fall on deaf ears.


Humanity's enigma is that science is based on reasoning; yet we have no reasonable explanation of this reasoning's appearance; it becomes science and anti-science meshed together - we cannot speak of science unless we acknowledge science never existed at one point, making the origins of this science an engma. Its like saying your PC comes from reasoned thought and actions, but reason and thought are random entities not resultant from thought and action.

A kabala writings, the earliest science which examines Genesis, speaks of the origins of the universe by starting at the terms origins and widsom itself - which predate the appearance of the universe - consider if this was not the case! This premise involves ten emenations which spewed out of a source able to produce actions without interacting with other entities [no alternative to this premise exists] - once nothing else existed, including 'WISDOM' itself. Wisdom is a faculty which predated the universe and was established in the second emanation. The thought or will of a universe was formed in the emenation of wisdom - which never existed before. This gives a deeper meaning to the term:

THE UNIVERSE WAS MADE IN WISDOM.

Here, wisdom becomes a place or a station.

Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by SavageD, posted 10-23-2011 4:24 PM SavageD has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Admin, posted 10-23-2011 10:16 PM IamJoseph has not yet responded

    
Prev1
...
56
7
89
...
15Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2018