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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Occupy Wall Street

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Author Topic:   Occupy Wall Street
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(2)
Message 133 of 602 (636891)
10-11-2011 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Buzsaw
10-11-2011 8:53 PM


Re: Demand What Of Their Congressman?
Well, Jonsey, pray tell, if America is not the greatest for Hispanics and blacks from Mexico, Haite and Cuba, the nations which I mentioned, what nation on the planet is greater for them in the proximity where they would be able to go to?
As always, Sweden is doing pretty well for itself.

This message is a reply to:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(2)
Message 151 of 602 (637158)
10-13-2011 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Buzsaw
10-13-2011 9:44 PM


Re: Demand What Of Their Congressman?
We shouldn't welcome illegal anybodies.
Then we should make it legal to come to the US, work here for a season, and then return to Mexico. It's easy to complain about "illegals", but isn't it a problem that there's no legal path for what they want to do? It makes absolutely zero sense to expect someone to spend 10 years and fifteen thousand dollars in order to come here and pick vegetables for six months.
To the extent that illegals are taking permanent residency, it's because we've made crossing the border such an enormous investment that when undocumented workers come here, they feel like they have to stay to make it worth it. If we made the border more porous for temporary workers, they would come, work, and then return to Mexico during the off season.
That would seem to be the best case for everybody - best for them, because they can earn a US wage and then spend it in Mexico, where the dollar is stronger; best for racists like Buz, because they're not here year-round, idle during the off-season, and don't have to employ "coyotes" or engage in drug-smuggling as a side job in order to make the border passage possible; best for the US who continues to be able to rely on the cheap labor we so depend on.
But we should be increasing immigration in general. We have entire cities that are going to shit because nobody lives in them - vacant cities. What use is a vacant city? We should be importing people to live in them. It's better for them and better for us. What on Earth do we think we're running out of in the US that we can't share it with the 80,000 people worldwide who would like to immigrate to the US but aren't allowed to?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Buzsaw, posted 10-13-2011 9:44 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Coyote, posted 10-13-2011 10:55 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 154 of 602 (637168)
10-14-2011 12:18 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Coyote
10-13-2011 10:55 PM


Re: New subtitle
They will make good citizens, and their children will go to college.
Well, but again, who said anything about citizenship? The majority of these workers have no intention of naturalizing in the US. They want to remain Mexicans.
But there's no legal path for someone who wants to come in from Mexico and work for a season, as you point out. I think we agree on that. Whether or not someone who wants to do that becomes a US citizen - I don't so much care about that. We do make it way too hard for people to become citizens, for absolutely no reason.
80,000 can't be a realistic number. More like 800 million.
Well, I was way off, but so are you. The number is actually l165 million:
quote:
Gallup finds the U.S. is clearly the No. 1 desired destination among these potential migrants, with more than 165 million saying they would like to move there, and neighboring Canada is a distant second with 45 million.
http://www.gallup.com/...ng-less-educated-yearn-migrate.aspx
On one hand, that's quite a few people, but on the other hand - cities like Detroit are actually plowing under portions of their city because people don't live there anymore. Really? 165 million people want to move to the US and we can't figure out a way to move them to Detroit?
We're getting criminals along with the good workers, and that should be corrected.
I don't so much care about that, either. There's no evidence that criminals in Mexico - where, frankly, criminals have it pretty good - are eager to flee to a country with functioning governance and criminal justice. There's a reason our criminals try to flee to Mexico; the notion that Mexican criminals would try to flee here is a non-starter for me. I don't know how you'd do point-of-crossing background checks when there's no system in Mexico that could possibly tell you at the border if someone had a criminal record. I think you're handwaving enforcement of something that is going to cost a great, great deal to enforce.
We just need some control over things.
Trying to control the inherently uncontrollable is a recipe for disaster - specifically, it's the recipe for the disastrous and racist immigration policies we have today.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Coyote, posted 10-13-2011 10:55 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Coyote, posted 10-14-2011 12:28 AM crashfrog has replied
 Message 158 by onifre, posted 10-14-2011 7:23 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 160 of 602 (637289)
10-14-2011 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by Coyote
10-14-2011 12:28 AM


Re: New subtitle
We can't get our own citizens to stay in Detroit, why would you think those moving to the US--who can settle anywhere they want (that is, anywhere there is good work)--would want to settle in Detroit?
Because even Detroit is better than the shitholes they're from.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Coyote, posted 10-14-2011 12:28 AM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(1)
Message 201 of 602 (638016)
10-19-2011 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by rueh
10-19-2011 8:25 AM


Re: Best way to Occupy Wall Street
Having worked for the government for the past 12 years I am certain that the last people you should be trusting with your money is them.
I worked for the government, too, and I found nearly everyone I encountered in that capacity to be highly conscientious of the public trust placed in them. Compare that to the rapacity and inefficiency of the private industry and I'd much prefer public over private management of most things.
One recent study found that privatization of public functions increased their costs by as much as 60% in most cases. Far from it being cheaper for the private sector to do things, it's actually quite a bit more expensive because you have to overpay for comparable talent.
The higher income also has more opportunities to allow that 1% to work for them and for the benefit of the economy
The marginal utility of a rich person's one extra dollar to me is even lower than it is to them. Sorry, but no. This trickle-down theory has never worked; the wealthy are not and have never been job creators. When economies grow and add jobs, it's generally not by expansion of existing businesses, it's by the creation of new ones.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by rueh, posted 10-19-2011 8:25 AM rueh has replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 216 of 602 (638054)
10-19-2011 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by caffeine
10-19-2011 12:38 PM


Re: Millions and Billions and Trillions, oh my!
"Billion" of course, would actually have been the correct word, if only Americans would learn to understand how many noughts are in each "-illion".
3, plus one comma. You Brit pussies are the ones who've got it wrong (ask a Greek.) You don't even know they're called "zeros", lol!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by caffeine, posted 10-19-2011 12:38 PM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by caffeine, posted 10-20-2011 6:06 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(4)
Message 219 of 602 (638061)
10-19-2011 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by rueh
10-19-2011 1:02 PM


Re: Best way to Occupy Wall Street
Well then I would point you to the post office versus companies such as fed-ex or ups.
The USPS is actually incredibly profitable, or at least it would be if it wasn't the only company in the United States that was required to prepay 6 billion dollars in future retiree health benefits every year. Even operating without that hobbling obligation, UPS and FedEx still charge more than twenty times the USPS to deliver a letter, don't deliver on Saturday, won't deliver to your home in many cases, and simply don't deliver anything at all to tens of millions of rural Americans.
I don't think that we should be taxing more just because you have a problem with others having more than you.
Well, we don't. We tax the rich at a higher rate than the poor because it's more fair to do so. That's what's fair - the rich paying a greater share of their income, because their portion of the nation's wealth is higher.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(1)
Message 235 of 602 (638180)
10-20-2011 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by Buzsaw
10-20-2011 10:28 AM


Re: Hiring Moratorium
The link itemizes the reasons that it would not be profitable for small businesses to hire in a progressive socialistic economy.
The link actually does not list even a single reason why it would not be profitable for small businesses to hire in an economy that doesn't exist; it itemizes only reasons that it's important for Tea Party fanatics to sabotage the economy until a Republican takes office.
In other words, it's another Tea Party shakedown. "Awful nice country you got here; shame if something were to... happen to it."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Buzsaw, posted 10-20-2011 10:28 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(1)
Message 244 of 602 (638248)
10-20-2011 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by Buzsaw
10-20-2011 4:29 PM


Re: Best way to Occupy Wall Street
The solution is to lower all taxes so as to limit government spending.
How does lowering taxes limit government spending at the Federal level?
And if you favor lower taxes, how can you explain your support of Hermain Cain, who has promised to significantly increase your taxes? (I presume that, as a retiree, you're not in the $250,000 a year income bracket.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by Buzsaw, posted 10-20-2011 4:29 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 261 of 602 (638797)
10-25-2011 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Buzsaw
10-25-2011 8:23 PM


Re: Best way to Occupy Wall Street
The solution is for the rich, the middle class and the poor to go to the poles and fire the boobs, replacing them with conservative (i.e. to conserve) representatives who hold the line on spending, cut the pork,etc.
What conservative has ever "held the line" on spending? Please be specific. Even Ronaldus Maximus grew the deficit and increased spending.
The solution is for the protesting rent-a-mob rif-raf, trashing up the homes, businesses and offices on Wall Street to go to work, earn their way and advocate for candidates who will cease and desist doing what the boobs in government are doing.
Didn't we just learn that 85% of the OWS protesters were already employed?
What "homes" do you think there are on Wall Street? And what do Wall Street financial elites do to "earn their way"? Remember, just because someone pays you, doesn't mean you earned it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Buzsaw, posted 10-25-2011 8:23 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by Buzsaw, posted 10-25-2011 11:46 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(3)
Message 264 of 602 (638801)
10-25-2011 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Buzsaw
10-25-2011 11:46 PM


Re: Best way to Occupy Wall Street
What conservative president has had a lean spending Congress which creates the spending bills?
You mean, besides all of them? Remember the Gingrich revolution, the Contract With America? I do. Remember how it was supposed to usher in an age of conservative governance? Remember how it didn't?
Don't you remember Bush's enormous Congressional majorities? I do. What on Earth is the deal with the perpetual Conservative Cult of Victimhood? Even when they have all three branches, it's "oh, those dastardly liberals!" When are you guys going to take some personal responsibility for the fact that your conservative credo is nothing but an electoral excuse to redistribute wealth to the rich?
Employed by who?
By employers.
The employers of many are highly funded rent-a-mob left wing organizations.
Right, it's ACORN. An organization that hasn't existed since it was framed by conservative for crimes it not only didn't commit, but that never actually happened. Somehow they've come from BEYOND THE GRAVE to, what, throw a few drum circles in some city parks?
These conspiracy theories have to stop, Buz. You look like a buffoon.
'They are defecating on our doorsteps': Manhattan residents' fury over Occupy Wall St protesters'
They shit all over our economy; sounds like OWS guys are just returning the favor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Buzsaw, posted 10-25-2011 11:46 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Buzsaw, posted 10-26-2011 12:19 AM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(6)
Message 266 of 602 (638803)
10-26-2011 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 263 by Buzsaw
10-25-2011 11:46 PM


Re: Best way to Occupy Wall Street
Utterly astounding. Tea Partiers show up and threaten people with loaded guns at health care debates; Tea Partiers attack peaceful Democratic demonstrators; Tea Partiers run amok in Wisconsin; none of that merits a police response beyond "move along, move along."
Oh, but complain about income inequality instead of a black president, and all of a sudden it's a full-on police riot. Unbelievable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Buzsaw, posted 10-25-2011 11:46 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 274 of 602 (638825)
10-26-2011 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Buzsaw
10-26-2011 11:06 AM


Re: A Few Facts
Why do you think it's the same people the whole time, Buz?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Buzsaw, posted 10-26-2011 11:06 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(3)
Message 278 of 602 (638845)
10-26-2011 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by Buzsaw
10-26-2011 12:19 AM


Re: Best way to Occupy Wall Street
But the only difference between the new groups and ACORN is the names, Issa said.
Issa is clearly inaccurate and biased; as you'll recall he originally led the trumpted-up charges against ACORN that led to the organization being defunded for partisan reasons. Issa is referring to organizations that haven't "gone anywhere" because they were never ACORN; saying that they're somehow the same now as they were then is nonsense.
Your link does nothing to substantiate your assertion that ACORN is somehow responsible for OWS. (We know who organized Occupy Wall Street, Buz. It was organized jointly by the political organization "Adbusters", the NYC General Assembly, and participants from US Day of Rage. It's not a fucking secret, Buz.)
You need to read up and wise up before posting.
It's so nice to know you care about me, but that concern is better saved for yourself. Just to look at your greatest hits in the past two weeks or so, you've asserted "massive inflation" in a decade when the dollar has rarely been stronger; advocated simultaneously for "lower taxes" and Herman Cain's plan to raise taxes; turned your back on your fellow conservatives by voicing support for the insane, genocidal Lord's Resistance Army on the basis of knowing nothing about them except that Obama sent troops to fight them; implied that Wall Street hosts a residential community; and failed to glean simple information about the Occupy Wall Street movement that is on their Wikipedia page.
Nobody thinks I'm the one who doesn't know what he's talking about, here. Not even your fellow-traveler conservatives and creationists think you know anything. I continue to be amazed that it makes no impression on you at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Buzsaw, posted 10-26-2011 12:19 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(2)
Message 294 of 602 (638919)
10-26-2011 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by Buzsaw
10-26-2011 11:00 PM


Re: A Few Facts
My point was that many of these protesters are there 24/7.
How many of them? Be specific.
Those have no jobs.
Or they own their own businesses.
These protests are not spontaneous like the Tea Parties. They are well organized and planned by anti-capitalist entities.
The Tea Parties were not "spontaneous", they were created by MSNBC and funded by the Koch brothers.
Some of them are likely 99 week unemployed trashing up the property of the taxpayers paying their dime.
Well, but that's why they're there - the Wall Street fatcats don't pay their fair share of taxes - if they even pay any taxes at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by Buzsaw, posted 10-26-2011 11:00 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by Coyote, posted 10-27-2011 12:18 AM crashfrog has replied

  
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