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Author | Topic: What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.5 |
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes: Only the life forms in Noah's household/possessions were called for [the text]; only these entered the ark [the absence of any wild animals in the text]. Present supporting texts.
IamJoseph writes: This was an agricultural epoch of humanity, its people having large Texas style lands with a host of life forms utilized for food and trading. They usually never ventured outside their towns for most of their lives; many never even knew there were other lands or nations. This regional flood appeared to them as a global one, and the writings reflect this authentically of its period - aka 'SPEAKING IN THE LANGUAGE OF THE PEOPLE". Present supporting text.
IamJoseph writes: All anti-creationists focus on what they can impound on and connect with their agenda, while playing 3 blind mice of millions of stats introduced for the first time to humanity in the Hebrew writings. There are no anti-creationists period. Everyone believes in creation. There are those who believe in the creation account in the Bible and there are those who believe in the creation of everything from an absence of anything. But everyone believes in creation as science teaches the universe had a beginning they just don't know where it came from or how it began to exist.
IamJoseph writes: The Hebrew writings are NOT a Walt Disney story. Neither was it a IamJoseph or Watchman Nee story. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.5 |
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes: Its not about 'and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth'. quote: The Hebrew word כל translated every is a preposition that means all. What part of every (all) living substance excluded? Where is that part it excluded?
quote: What part of all flesh is excluded? Where is that part excluded? God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.5 |
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes: No sir, it does not say 'from the face of the earth'. quote: Are you saying that verse does not say "from off the face of the earth"?
IamJoseph writes: It points only to those outside of Noah's possessions [the text you ignored]. Where in the above verse does it mention anything in or outside of Noah's possessions?
IamJoseph writes: Every living creature in Noah's region. Where does any of the text say in Noah's region?
IamJoseph writes: Alexander: "I will destroy the Persian king Darius from off the face of the earth". Tasmania excluded. Tasmania was not included to be destroyed or it would have been. Something has to be excluded to not be destroyed. Only the things in the ark was preserved from being destroyed that had the breath of life (breathed air) and was not destroyed. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.5 |
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes: That's a great retort. At least your taking the text seriously - no other post did. Of note here is that the criteria is not about wild animals but clean and unclean. Are there any other kinds of animals. Either an animal is clean or unclean there is no other description.
IamJoseph writes: namely it is referring to 'kosher' animals or those permissable; of note the pig is not mentioned - sorry pig! But the text does not specify 'kosher' animals.
quote: If you will notice Noah and his wife, Noah's son's and their wives went into the ark. None of them had anything to do with the animals or birds that came into the ark. The animals arrived and boarded the ark all by themselves. There was clean beasts, unclean beasts, fowls, and everything that creepeth upon the earth that boarded the ark. Now where is any wild animal left out? Give the text that excludes any species of animal that was on the earth at the time of the flood of Noah. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.5 |
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes: quote: Of note, you left it out! Where in that does it say household and household pets? The Hebrew word translated house could have been translated humans in house. God does specify what He means.
quote: This specifies who Noah is responsible to make sure they are in the ark. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.5 |
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes: Animals are also listed. Yes animals are listed.
quote: Noah and his wife his sons and their wives went into the ark. Then the clean beasts and the unclean beasts and fowls and of everything that creepeth upon the earth came aboard the ark two by two unto Noah into the ark. So Noah had nothing to do with the animals coming aboard the ark. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.5 |
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes: Clean refers to kosher, So clean animals refer to the ones the law which was given a long time after the flood specified. OK I will go with that. Here is the list of clean and unclean animals in the law.
quote: I think if you read that list closely you will find every creature that exists on planet Earth today is covered as being either a clean beast or an unclean beast. So when the text says:
quote: All flesh it means all flesh that has the breath of life. Whether they were clean or unclean. The sow (or gilt) and boar made the trip. They were unclean animals. But the law of Moses was not in effect at the time of the flood. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.5 |
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes: Snakes, worms, elephants. These are found in Noah's region. That is not a verse that is animals. This verse covers the snakes, worms, and elephants.
quote: God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.5 |
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes: the provision applies to a regional flood not a global one. So you keep asserting.
quote: Can you tell me where there would be dry land if all the hills under the whole heaven was covered with 15 cubits of water? God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.5 |
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes: He prepared for them, as directed to him. That the animals came of their own signifies these were domestic animals who knew their keepers; they would have also been privy before humans of an on-coming natural disaster. Yes Noah built the ark as God had commanded with rooms in it.Yes Noah gathered food as God had commanded him to do. If God told a lion to get on the ark why wouldn't that lion get on the ark. You are limiting God's abilities and power. If He couldn't have all kinds of wild animals get on the ark how will He be able to get the lion to eat straw and lay down by the lamb?
IamJoseph writes: The dispute is limited to the size of this disaster only, whether it is a global or regional one. There is no dispute in the text. According to Genesis 7:19, 20 all the high hills under the whole heaven was covered with 15 cubits of water. That don't leave any dry land anywhere."John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.5 |
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes: A cubit is aprox a feet, +_ a few cms. Namely, it is the length of elbow to palm. The short Hebrew cubit was 17.8 inches.The long Hebrew cubit was 20.67 inches. The Holy cubit was 25.03 inches. Why do you insist on call the ark a boat?
IamJoseph writes: Specifically, it contradicts all notions of a writing being wrong or a fable because all the animals of the earth obviously could not fit in such a boat Why don't you figure up how many cubit feet would be required to put the 10,000 to 17,000 critters on the earth today and I will figure out how big the ark would have to be to house them. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.5 |
Hi Joseph,
Joseph writes: It means from all the face of the earth in the designated region of Noah. So where does it designate the region of Noah. The dry land of Genesis 1:9, 10 was called earth. If the face of that dry land was covered with water where was the dry land left under the heavens where all land under the heavens was covered with 15 cubits of water. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.5 |
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes: Earth refers to all land. The variance of cubit measures do not impact the size what would allow all life forms to fit, so why go there. What does that Gish Gallop have to do with the question I asked. Here is the question again and I will try to simplify it so you can understand the question.
quote: There was a dry land mass that the water left visible when the water gathered to one place. Genesis 1:9, 10. I believe the dry land mass was all in one place but that is immaterial to what we are discussing. The dry land mass could have been shaped just as it is today. Everything would be covered by water.
quote: 1. All the high hills were covered. Not some of the high hills. 2. All the high hills that were under the whole heaven was covered with 15 cubits of water. Using the short Hebrew cubit there was 22.25 feet of water.Using the long Hebrew cubit there was 25.8375 feet of water. Using the Holy cubit there was 31.2875 feet of water. The amount of water is immaterial. The highest part of dry land that existed under the whole heaven was covered by 15 cubits of water. Therefore if there was any dry land it was not on the planet earth, as it had to be out from under the heaven. Now if you want to argue that there was not enough room on the ark for two of 'ALL' creatures plus the extra clean creatures figure up the amount of cubic feet required for them to exist on the ark and I will see if I can get them to fit. There are between 10,000 and 17,000 species alive today. The size of the cubit used by Noah does make a big difference in the size of the ark. Using the smallest Hebrew cubit there was 1,468,685.403465 cubic feet in the ark. Using the Holy cubit there was 4,011,000 cubic feet. So the size of the cubit makes a big difference. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.5 |
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes: I don't see it that way. That God is omnipotent is generic; it does not negate the parametres of what is and is not coherent from a human POV. What does the human POV have to do with what God does. God said: "And of every living thing of all flesh"... Every living thing does not change from every to some just because you want it too or believe that it does.
IamJoseph writes: 15 cubits is a small amount; it has no relevency with covering the earth. There is a diminishing series of rejections, but it won't result in a backdown for sure. 15 cubits of water on the highest hill under the heaven does not leave any dry land. If you disagree please explain how there would be any dry land anywhere if the highest point of dry land on planet earth was covered with 15 cubits of water. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.5 |
Hi Joseph,
IamJoseph writes: That is well outside the Noah story. Yes but it declares what is a clean animal and and unclean animal. The snake, and worms go on their belly and the elephant goes on all fours. All of these are listed as unclean animals. You are the one claiming they were not on the ark, not me.
quote: Two of everything that breathed of ALL flesh went into the ark. I guess Noah was responsible for the rest of the clean animals because they did not load themselves.
IamJoseph writes: The main problem has been cherry picking verses out of context with the entire reportings and leaving out pivotal verses. Is the three verses presented above cherry picking?
IamJoseph writes: Its always the multitiude that is wrong. Since I am a minority of 1 as no one believes what I do then I have to be correct, if your statement is correct. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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