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Author Topic:   What the KJV Bible says about the Noah Flood
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 197 of 306 (639602)
11-02-2011 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by Coragyps
11-02-2011 10:20 AM


Re: ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
That's a great retort. At least your taking the text seriously - no other post did. Of note here is that the criteria is not about wild animals but clean and unclean. Also, the translation may not be accurately understood of the ancient Hebrew writings, and maybe such birds were housed for other reasons which I am not aware of. Many birds are ritually clean from the text's pov, namely it is referring to 'kosher' animals or those permissable; of note the pig is not mentioned - sorry pig!

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 Message 194 by Coragyps, posted 11-02-2011 10:20 AM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2011 12:03 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 198 of 306 (639604)
11-02-2011 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by jar
11-02-2011 10:27 AM


Re: look at what the God characters say
Its not what I think but what the text says:
quote:
Genesis 7/1 And the LORD said unto Noah: 'Come thou and all thy house into the ark.
Of note, you left it out!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by jar, posted 11-02-2011 10:27 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by jar, posted 11-02-2011 10:44 AM IamJoseph has replied
 Message 205 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2011 12:19 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 206 of 306 (639656)
11-02-2011 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by ICANT
11-02-2011 12:19 PM


Re: look at what the God characters say
quote:
Where in that does it say household and household pets?
The Hebrew word translated house could have been translated humans in house.
God does specify what He means.
Absolutely it does. Thy household refers to Noah's possessions, which applies to life forms - these are qualified in the text by the account of live stock in additional to his family. A host of other verses also align with it. Once this is accepted, all the rest makes sense; the reverse applies with its rejection.
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Genesis 6:18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This specifies who Noah is responsible to make sure they are in the ark.
Animals are also listed.
Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

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 Message 205 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2011 12:19 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2011 11:21 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 207 of 306 (639657)
11-02-2011 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by ICANT
11-02-2011 12:03 PM


Re: ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
quote:
Are there any other kinds of animals.
Either an animal is clean or unclean there is no other description.
IamJoseph writes:
namely it is referring to 'kosher' animals or those permissable; of note the pig is not mentioned - sorry pig!
But the text does not specify 'kosher' animals.
Clean refers to kosher, namely ritually clean for consumption, not that those animals are bad or inferior to other animals, but only prohibited for consumption; usually, these animals are scavangers and will eat any and everything and can have toxic effects. Pigs are not kosher because they do not meet the criteria. In Hebrew, the term clean animals is kosher animals in the text - its where the word comes from.
Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2011 12:03 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2011 11:57 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 208 of 306 (639658)
11-02-2011 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by ICANT
11-02-2011 12:03 PM


Re: ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
quote:
Give the text that excludes any species of animal that was on the earth at the time of the flood of Noah.
Snakes, worms, elephants. These are found in Noah's region.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2011 12:03 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2011 1:10 AM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 209 of 306 (639660)
11-02-2011 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by ICANT
11-02-2011 12:03 PM


Re: ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7:4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you saying that verse does not say "from off the face of the earth"?
Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. It means from all the face of the earth in the designated region of Noah. I gave tacit examples of the same book which concerned Lot and his two daughters in the matter of Sodom. Everyone disregards the text to align with their own illformed agenda.
Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

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 Message 204 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2011 12:03 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2011 1:49 AM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 210 of 306 (639661)
11-02-2011 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by jar
11-02-2011 10:44 AM


Re: look at what the God characters say
Is the fable mount ararat, introduced for the first time in its correct geographical location, a fable? Are the geneologies listed in error? Are the foods listed in contradiction of its period?
This book is not about Zeus, Jupiter and Lord Venus!

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 Message 199 by jar, posted 11-02-2011 10:44 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by jar, posted 11-02-2011 7:20 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 212 of 306 (639664)
11-02-2011 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by jar
11-02-2011 7:20 PM


Re: look at what the God characters say
quote:
No, the flood story is not one fable, they are several fables.
The Genealogies are made up.
No, it is not plausable to be made up. It is the greatet math in recorded history, aligning with millions of numbers, life spans, dates, names and places over a 3000 year period. How do we know the 10 Cmands were given on a saturday - can you answer that fable!?
quote:
The foods are not listed in the flood myths.
They are!
quote:
London is introduced for the first time in its correct geographical location in the fable Historia Regum Britanniae.
Londonium [Bridge in latin], as with Briton, are given latin names by Rome some 2000 years ago. Jerusalem, Hevron, Bet El, Avraham, etc are Hebrew names given for the first time.

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 Message 211 by jar, posted 11-02-2011 7:20 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by jar, posted 11-02-2011 9:15 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 213 of 306 (639665)
11-02-2011 8:28 PM


A cubit is aprox a feet, +_ a few cms. Namely, it is the length of elbow to palm. See also the writings of Josephus, who describes the temple fortress measurements, both in Hebrew and Greek, to the Romans and the Greeks, as the biggest monument on the earth, in 'cubits'. The dimensions of the boat given to Noah allows to other reading of who/what entered the arc. Such blatant omissions are telling of the fable pushers. Specifically, it contradicts all notions of a writing being wrong or a fable because all the animals of the earth obviously could not fit in such a boat - oh realy! How observant of you! But the sign in your front and rear vision mirrors say:
WRONG WAY - GO BACK.

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IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 215 of 306 (639680)
11-02-2011 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by jar
11-02-2011 9:15 PM


Re: look at what the God characters say
The 10 C's were given on a saturday, by virtue of its calculus proof - something which cannot be improvised from millions of datings and numbers inerspersed of a 3000 year period, with no errors, in the absence of a super pc or record of that entire period. The text reads 'REMEMBER "THIS" DAY AS THE SATURDAY'. The sabbath law, namely a rest one day per week for all workers with pay, was introduced here, including the DAY and the WEEK. It is different in kind and degree from anything anyone can produce as an equavelence.
Moses is today unproven, despite a host of absolutely credible evidences. But till recently, King David and Solomon were regarded as myth by big time scholars and archeologists - they will never recover from their shame, thanks to the ground itself spitting out this proof. Moses never entered Canaan, and the area in question is notoriously controlled by forces opposing, negating, denying and destroying any possible proof. The Hebrew writings are humanity's most credible historical documents, with over 70% already proven: no scripture can match this.
Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by jar, posted 11-02-2011 9:15 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by jar, posted 11-03-2011 10:08 AM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 216 of 306 (639684)
11-02-2011 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by jar
11-02-2011 9:15 PM


Re: look at what the God characters say
quote:
And it still has NOTHING to do with what the King James Authorized Version of the Bible has to say about the flood myths.
KJ is a third/forth generation translation with a decidedly European Christian perspective. With all its good intentions, it also makes a Walt Disney effect of the Hebrew: consider that Isaac was a strapping man in his 30's when he was offered for sacrifice by Abraham - not a child in his father's arms as depicted in European paintings. The test was not on Abraham, who fully believed in his actions by proof given him in the matter of a belated son at an old age. This was in fact a world changing account, whereby without Isaac's input in enabling Abraham to pass such a test there would not be three religions today.
The Septuagint is much older than the KJ and has no Christian input, [300 BCE], and this too relies on the Hebrew writings. You have no credible options in your claim of Noah without the Hebrew writings.
Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by jar, posted 11-02-2011 9:15 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 218 of 306 (639689)
11-02-2011 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by ICANT
11-02-2011 11:21 PM


Re: look at what the God characters say
quote:
So Noah had nothing to do with the animals coming aboard the ark.
He prepared for them, as directed to him. That the animals came of their own signifies these were domestic animals who knew their keepers; they would have also been privy before humans of an on-coming natural disaster.
This story is not about FX miracles, which are listed in a host of other places in the Hebrew writings, greater in kind than any mind can imagine. This is about authenticity of the story in its minaiture details which also aligns with a common natural disaster. The only difference is the weather forecaster in this case is Noah's God. There is no question a natural disaster occured here; no one has disputed this primal factor. The dispute is limited to the size of this disaster only, whether it is a global or regional one. This gives the report a great measure of authetic and credible reporting - at least in the category of a disaster occuring, whether it was global or regional, reported of a period when no such detailed reportings is seen elsewhere.
The other factor is about motive. There is no reason to include the whole world when reporting a regional event. There is also no sense in disregarding the report as wholly mythical when all of its content is regarded!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2011 11:21 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2011 1:26 AM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 220 of 306 (639691)
11-03-2011 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 219 by ICANT
11-02-2011 11:57 PM


Re: ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
quote:
I think if you read that list closely you will find every creature that exists on planet Earth today is covered as being either a clean beast or an unclean beast.
So when the text says:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All flesh it means all flesh that has the breath of life. Whether they were clean or unclean.
The sow (or gilt) and boar made the trip. They were unclean animals.
A fair point. However, Noah would have possessed both clean and unclean animals; some for consumption some not, which is directied by the extra number of consumable clean animals. The text is not in contradiction mode - the provision applies to a regional flood not a global one.
quote:
But the law of Moses was not in effect at the time of the flood.
True. Here it must be seen with the difference of a statement by God or the people. E.g. Jacob was married to two sisters, forbidden under the Mosaic law. This is fine where the law was not yet given. But this is not fine if the declaration came from the law giver, in Noah's time as from God. I mean, there is a difference between what is described in the Hebrew writings as authentic details of how a people act and how God does. God cannot be seen to contradict or change his mind; a positive pledge by God cannot be changed even by God himself, based on the premise God is truth - so no, God cannot do anything and remain as God. Whatever people did before the law is one thing; another what God said.
Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2011 11:57 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2011 1:18 AM IamJoseph has not replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 226 of 306 (639704)
11-03-2011 4:25 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by ICANT
11-03-2011 1:49 AM


Re: ONCE MORE WITH FEELINGS.
quote:
The dry land of Genesis 1:9, 10 was called earth.
If the face of that dry land was covered with water where was the dry land left under the heavens where all land under the heavens was covered with 15 cubits of water.
Earth refers to all land. The variance of cubit measures do not impact the size what would allow all life forms to fit, so why go there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2011 1:49 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2011 4:08 PM IamJoseph has replied

  
IamJoseph
Member (Idle past 3668 days)
Posts: 2822
Joined: 06-30-2007


Message 227 of 306 (639705)
11-03-2011 4:30 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by ICANT
11-03-2011 1:26 AM


Re: look at what the God characters say
quote:
You are limiting God's abilities and power.
If He couldn't have all kinds of wild animals get on the ark how will He be able to get the lion to eat straw and lay down by the lamb?
I don't see it that way. That God is omnipotent is generic; it does not negate the parametres of what is and is not coherent from a human POV.
quote:
According to Genesis 7:19, 20 all the high hills under the whole heaven was covered with 15 cubits of water.
That don't leave any dry land anywhere.
15 cubits is a small amount; it has no relevency with covering the earth. There is a diminishing series of rejections, but it won't result in a backdown for sure.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by ICANT, posted 11-03-2011 1:26 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
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