Who can be saved? A Christian perspective

I also read where you said that you believe that Jesus died for everyone...not simply those who believed in Him. So what if I am stubborn? What if I cling to the notion that I deserve more than others? What if I simply refuse to humble myself as much as I should? And by the way, why should I do anything? Im praying every day, but usually for myself and not others. I have tried so hard to get Gods attention, and am angry that I am being ignored. What will become of me?

Actually, I have said that Jesus died because Jesus was born.I have no idea what will become of you.

Thats why i think the Christian god dosent let Slovenians in to heaven, if he is smart he dosent let us in to hell either, we would just fuck his whole system up.In heaven one day when there would be enough of us this conversation would take place, you want us to be humble while your on your high throne acting all mighty come down and get on your knees and see how you like it, from now on we want ..... .... ... ... ... ... ... ... and cheap cigarettes and alcohol or we will put someone in charge that can provide us with that.In hell basically the same thing would happen but we would also probably eat the devil. After all after so much time in the lake of fire he should be well done. Edited by frako, : No reason given.

The reason I asked about me is because I could be lumped in with those stubborn, ignorant, and exclusivist Christians that you mention who are less likely to be in Heaven than not. We are indeed a stubborn lot. We have a fish on our business cards, and try to deal fair and square with others, though we as a group tend to confuse our christianity with our patriotism. Many of us own guns, and would defend this nation and ourselves from any sort of revolution that sought to bring down our free country. We are as tough and stubborn as the Slovenians, except we are not as used to economic hardships as their parents were.We trust the God whom we worship, and fully expect Him to forgive and bless us, even though logic shows that God is far bigger than our simple lifetime and our claims to social and economic advantage that we have grown to expect.Like the Slovenians, we would lead a revolution to overthrow the government if we thought that it had abandoned our principles and was catering to a global wealth class. We by and large dutifully pay off our debts as we can, but will never accept a bill that enslaves us to pay off any sort of national debt that demands $100,000 apiece from our hides.We would blame such a debt on the wealthy who stole it from us, and would fight to bring them down...although they have lawyers and jets and electronic money that could disappear from our banks in a click.The younger and more enlightened of us accept gays and immigrants from other countries, as long as they don't try and marry our sons (gays) or steal our jobs. (immigrants)We are unafraid of hard work, but we want to see America great again, and many of us don't understand why times have changed for good. As ground shifts under U.S. middle class, neither left nor right has it correctThe great American wealth divideOur faith is strong, however, and deep down we know that God is not the god of money. None of us want to have anything to do with Hell, though our morality tends to be aimed at preservation of our class and not of the Islamic, Hindu, or Atheist babies the world over whom, if they turn out wealthier than us, will be used by Satan to get us to fall on our own sword...IF...we don't listen to our inner conscience (Holy Spirit?) before grabbing the gun off of the rack.

Topic Synopsis Reflecting on my last post to you, I foresee a time when the US fundamentalist Christian will feel as if their god abandoned them. Reality suggests that there is a socioeconomic revolution happening globally that simply won't necessarily favor Americans, no matter who or what they believe in. In times when God seems imaginary and distant, people often take up a revolution in His name, whether or not He approves of it. Sadly, human nature is all about justifying a war in the name of God, though in reality it is for the benefit of the believers/zealots. And this is where we might fail. We simply want to help ourselves (and our kids) before we help others. (Why should foreigners be better off economically than we are? Shouldnt we take care of our own first?) This is the lesson that everyone will have to face...be they Christians, Muslims, Atheists or Hindus. Ironically, however, the "marketers" have already sold many fundamentalists on the idea that a one world government may soon form, one that is in favor of no one class. Its hard to take that if you were born in a previously favored class. Its also easy to believe that its Satan who is taking away your money/resources/freedoms. In the final analysis, how well will the Buddhists behave as opposed to the Christians? If global resources dwindle, who will be fighting for what, and who will simply "turn the other cheek"(wallet)?Basically, I believe that many will behave badly and few will try and do their best. I dont know if I honestly could humble myself enough to do my best. In Spirit, yes. In name, maybe not.As an American Christian, it was always easier to love and pity a world less fortunate than I. It would truly be hard to love a world that had grown wealthier than I..or to justify their enlightened status. I can now see how other cultures have long thought of the "blessed" American Christians. This is what the fundamentalist Christian middle/lower middle class does not understand. Being American never made them Gods chosen. America is not a chosen nation. The pain of seeing a whole world treated the exact same is abrasive to some, who feel that their lifestyles were stolen from them by the evil socialist conspiracy...in league with Satan. When it gets right down to it,k the only similarity to obtaining eternal life, for anyone, is in the act of dying for a battle to ensure that your offspring have it better than you did. So if you factor in a possible economic crises globally, food shortages, overpopulation, and every culture and nation trying to secure a decent future for their kids...what you will have is quite likely a war.Consensus is unlikely, since many of the ones who used to be ahead feel cheated.On the one hand, IF Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, everyone starts out equal...spiritually. What if, in a Global War, they behave quite badly? What if, for example, the US becomes a third class nation and many of the once proud Americans are broke? What if the Indian Atheists and Hindus seek and find a path of economic prosperity for their offspring? Above all, what about those damnable wealthy people? Globally, I mean? How do you expect anyone to love someone better off who wont share?I better stop...I feel frustrated and unable to continue this discussion rationally...I find myself wanting a certain answer and a certain outcome...and yet know deep down that things wont work out MY way. So...Crashfrog? Never mind if God exists or not. My question to you is this: How would you behave in a global war of competition for resources and future benefit of offspring? Would you be on any one side?

India graduates more honor students each year then there are students in the US.Faith does nothing.Whether or not you accept a debt, the debt is still due.

If they take our jobs at less expense, they will only cause a dissatisfied majority that is willing to even use WMD's if need be. My point is, there wont be any one power strong enough to stop a frustrated and pissed off US middle class. Honorable or not, there may be some deadly wars. I don't see how this is relevant. Either it gets paid, or you and i wont see our full pensions. Honor too has its price, and many wont accept too harsh of a sentence.

If we are not educated we cannot take the jobs regardless of the expense.If they are better educated they will get the jobs even at a higher expense. Then why did you keep saying stuff like "We trust the God whom we worship, and fully expect Him to forgive and bless us, even though logic shows that God is far bigger than our simple lifetime and our claims to social and economic advantage that we have grown to expect. " ...and "Our faith is strong, however, and deep down we know that God is not the god of money. None of us want to have anything to do with Hell, though our morality tends to be aimed at preservation of our class and not of the Islamic, Hindu, or Atheist babies the world over whom, if they turn out wealthier than us, will be used by Satan to get us to fall on our own sword...IF...we don't listen to our inner conscience (Holy Spirit?) before grabbing the gun off of the rack. "? It really does not much matter what they will accept. Reality is.And what does any of this have to do with the topic?

Salvation is a free gift, right> Nobody earns it.I try to do my best, though at times I fall far short...even willfully. I simply don't want to suffer and dont want to be out competed.I believe that God will save me...not for what I do versus what I could have done. Not for being a spoiled entitled brat. Not for being born in America. Because He loves me.The thing that puzzles me about your beliefs is that you seem to think that many of we christians will end up in Hell. Something about doing or not doing for the least of these.you do believe that it will be a remedial class, however, so I suppose I'm satisfied with your belief, and wont argue too much.Atheists wont be any happier when the once proud financial system falls. Nor will Hindus. Nor will you.

HUH?What I have said is that Salvation, if given, will be a free gift; it will be God saying "Yup, you screwed up but I see you really tried hard, so I forgive your failures." But no one has a clue, or can even have a clue, about whether or not they will be saved until after they are dead, tried and judged.What I have said is that if there is a heaven, there will be far more atheists, agnostics, Hindus, Taoists, Muslims, Jews, Satanists, Buddhists, Animists, followers of Confucius, Mencius, the Norse, Greek, Roman, Egyptian and Germanic Gods, than there will be Christians there.And HUH yet again.The once proud financial system didn't and will not fail, the people fail. The system does nothing. It is the day to day decisions that people make that will determine success or failure.Those who planned ahead and took precautions will likely suffer far less than those who did not.

quote:

---

IMHO, as a Christian, anyone can be saved whether or not they acknowledge or profess a belief in Jesus or even GOD. In fact, even if they deny the existence of GOD they can and will likely be saved.
So to others out there, whether you are Christian, one of the other Judaic faiths, agnostic or even athiest, what do you think? Who can be saved and how do you support your position?

---

Well said; you are now talking Hebrew bible lingo. Islam also emulates the wrong message for humanity with its infidel premise. However, how do you, as a Christian, contradict a pivotal doctrine of Christianity - it cannot be a mere wrong interpretation as the doctrine is very precisely listed?This then is the correct law, observed in all bona fide countries' judiciary institutions [excluding Iran and Saudi Arabia fer sure]. Of note this law does not contain any religious affiliations and is about 'equal justice for all':'ONLY THE SOUL THAT SINS [COMITS A CRIME] IT SHALL PAY'.Namely, a good Christian is better than a bad jew, and vice verse.

None know what is before or after death. Anyone saying they do is in error, or worse; many using this as a blackmail or to cheat and scare others. The only thing we can be sure of is that the universe is a work of wisdom and nothing is superfluous, though it may seem that way. This says there must be an intelligent reason applying. Of note that even a single random quark would destroy the universe eventually.

Sorry' I haven't read the whole thread. I'll just give my impressions.Where I was raized, in a Calvinist Church, I was told I was either pre-destined to be saved or else pre-destined to just burn forever. How was I supposed to know that I was pre-destined to be saved? I would just "know" I was saved, if I believed.I mean, even if I lead the life of the Pope, it didn't matter, he's not pre-destined to be saved. Even if I murdered hundreds of people, and I was pre-destined, I would repent sometime between now and my death-bed and be saved. All pre-destined and part of some mysterious plan. So absolutely circular and so ridiculous. But, but, but, He loves everyone soooo much!

Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian. Sorry, but it is not that precisely listed.

Yup, a God that knowingly creates critters that will be damned to hell is just plain evil.It really is that simple.