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Author Topic:   Why Do People Steal?
Taz
Member (Idle past 1215 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(1)
Message 31 of 270 (641304)
11-18-2011 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Phat
11-18-2011 11:25 AM


Re: Symptoms of societal disfunction
Is there a reason you've been digging up really old threads? Just curious.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Phat, posted 11-18-2011 11:25 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2152 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 32 of 270 (641305)
11-18-2011 2:37 PM


Set your own prices.
I get tea and coffee from the grocery store, but I never pay what they have on the items.

The store I use has my favorite Mate-based green tea mix for $9.00/lb. The thing is they never check your bag to see what tea is in it, you can put a label on it for the cheapest black tea they sell. But I think their black teas are expensive as well. Since the tea is loose in containers, and you have to put it into a bag, and place it on the scale, and print out the weight and cost then take it up to the register and pay, I just hold the bag over the scale till the price reads something I like, like $1.50 or less. Then I print that and put it on the bad and take it to the register, and pay for it and go home.

My friend told me this is stealing. I maintain that it is bargaining. Its me setting the price I am willing to pay for the tea most idiots pay $9/lb. for. They have the option at the register, to say no this huge bag of tea costs more than $1.50, in which case I would say I am uninterested in that price and I will not make the purchase (this never happens though). I am still paying for the tea, just not what they are asking for.

It works really well with bulk candy too. One time I got a huge bag of Jelly Bellies for $0.75.

It works for coffee as well. It works for anything where you have to weigh it and print a price out for it from the scale.

"Everyday I'm Hustlin" -- Rick Ross


Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Rahvin, posted 11-18-2011 2:46 PM Artemis Entreri has not yet responded
 Message 34 by crashfrog, posted 11-18-2011 2:58 PM Artemis Entreri has not yet responded
 Message 35 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-18-2011 3:02 PM Artemis Entreri has not yet responded
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 Message 38 by Modulous, posted 11-18-2011 3:24 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

  
Rahvin
Member (Idle past 1110 days)
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 33 of 270 (641309)
11-18-2011 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Artemis Entreri
11-18-2011 2:37 PM


Re: Set your own prices.
...that most certainly is theft. It's functionally no different from removing the tag from the cheapest item in a store, replacing it for the tag on a more expensive item, and paying the lower price.

It is in no way "bargaining," which requires both parties' awareness that price is being negotiated. You're not informing the register person that you're paying something less than the advertised rate - you're intentionally trying to pass your little deception off without them noticing, because you know full well that if they ever noticed that they'd charge you full price - and possibly ban you from their store.

Your willingness to pay a certain price is irrelevant at the moment of purchase except to determine whether you will or will not buy the item. If you don't think the item is worth it, you don't buy it. If sufficient people feel the same way, demand is decreased and the seller will likely lower the price, but that in no way gives you the right to just dishonestly steal from the store.

I'd love to get a brand new laptop for $5, but that's not how much they cost, and swapping the price tag for the one from a pack of CDs and trying to slip it past the register would be theft, just like what you're doing.


The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers


This message is a reply to:
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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 270 (641312)
11-18-2011 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Artemis Entreri
11-18-2011 2:37 PM


Re: Set your own prices.
My friend told me this is stealing. I maintain that it is bargaining.

Do they know they're "bargaining" with you? Somehow I missed the part where you actually do tell them that you're haggling over the price of tea with them.

Let me put it this way. While you're asleep in your apartment, I come in and take your TV. It's not "stealing", we're haggling over the price of your TV - I'm offering a price of zero dollars, and if you don't like that offer, you have the option to wake up, notice I'm taking your TV, and make a counter-offer. (Say, three rounds in the chest from the handgun in your nightstand?) As it is, I just take your continued slumber as implicit acceptance of my offer. I mean, you had the option!

Deal? Don't worry, I'll find your address. I'll even let myself in!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Artemis Entreri, posted 11-18-2011 2:37 PM Artemis Entreri has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16035
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 35 of 270 (641313)
11-18-2011 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Artemis Entreri
11-18-2011 2:37 PM


Re: Set your own prices.
My friend told me this is stealing. I maintain that it is bargaining.

It's stealing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Artemis Entreri, posted 11-18-2011 2:37 PM Artemis Entreri has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30920
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 36 of 270 (641316)
11-18-2011 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Artemis Entreri
11-18-2011 2:37 PM


Re: Set your own prices.
Absolutely stealing, or you could call it cheating, but no way is it bargaining.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Artemis Entreri, posted 11-18-2011 2:37 PM Artemis Entreri has not yet responded

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2152 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 37 of 270 (641318)
11-18-2011 3:13 PM


Rahvin writes:

It is in no way "bargaining," which requires both parties' awareness that price is being negotiated. You're not informing the register person that you're paying something less than the advertised rate - you're intentionally trying to pass your little deception off without them noticing, because you know full well that if they ever noticed that they'd charge you full price - and possibly ban you from their store.

I realize the whole thing about using the black tea label, so I dont use it, I was saying that you could switch labels if you wanted, sorry if that was unclear.

The label I present to the cashier says the price ($1.50), the price per pound of the tea ($9.00) (and its in a 1 pound bag). I feel as if they do not care, they scan the item and move on. All the information is on the bag. I basically hand them a 1 pound bag, that has a sticker on it that reads 0.15 pounds.
It is a hustle, but I am still paying for it, so I do not think it is stealing.

Crashfrog writes:

Let me put it this way. While you're asleep in your apartment, I come in and take your TV. It's not "stealing", we're haggling over the price of your TV - I'm offering a price of zero dollars, and if you don't like that offer, you have the option to wake up, notice I'm taking your TV, and make a counter-offer. (Say, three rounds in the chest from the handgun in your nightstand?) As it is, I just take your continued slumber as implicit acceptance of my offer. I mean, you had the option!
Deal? Don't worry, I'll find your address. I'll even let myself in!


I Live in a house. You have to get past the German Sheppard, who is a very light sleeper. And the counter offer comes in the form of a 12 gauge (handguns do to much collateral damage).
Replies to this message:
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 Message 40 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-18-2011 3:35 PM Artemis Entreri has not yet responded

  
Modulous
Member (Idle past 27 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 38 of 270 (641321)
11-18-2011 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Artemis Entreri
11-18-2011 2:37 PM


fraud
The store I use has my favorite Mate-based green tea mix for $9.00/lb. The thing is they never check your bag to see what tea is in it, you can put a label on it for the cheapest black tea they sell.

This is called fraud.

quote:
fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain

(from wiki)

It's a relatively minor fraud, but it is fraud nevertheless.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Artemis Entreri, posted 11-18-2011 2:37 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Artemis Entreri, posted 11-18-2011 3:39 PM Modulous has responded

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 660
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 39 of 270 (641323)
11-18-2011 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Artemis Entreri
11-18-2011 3:13 PM


It is a hustle, but I am still paying for it, so I do not think it is stealing.

What part of "It is a hustle" did you not understand as stealing? You are flat out stealing .85 pounds of tea as you only paid for .15 pounds.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Artemis Entreri, posted 11-18-2011 3:13 PM Artemis Entreri has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16035
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 40 of 270 (641324)
11-18-2011 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Artemis Entreri
11-18-2011 3:13 PM


The label I present to the cashier says the price ($1.50), the price per pound of the tea ($9.00) (and its in a 1 pound bag). I feel as if they do not care, they scan the item and move on. All the information is on the bag. I basically hand them a 1 pound bag, that has a sticker on it that reads 0.15 pounds.
It is a hustle, but I am still paying for it, so I do not think it is stealing.

And yet it is, in fact, stealing.

You are not paying for what you got, you are paying for something else, because of your fraud. Yes, it's stealing. Stop it. If you were starving, I'd say OK, steal if you must, but you're not, you're stealing luxury goods because you've found out a way for you to get away with it. This is just wrong.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Artemis Entreri, posted 11-18-2011 3:13 PM Artemis Entreri has not yet responded

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2152 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 41 of 270 (641325)
11-18-2011 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Modulous
11-18-2011 3:24 PM


Re: fraud
really minor fraud considering I buy hippy organic milk, and vegan mayonnaise, and a ton of other crap that costs twice as much as anywhere else. so I save $7.50 on the tea, $5 on coffee, and $10 on candy, I still get $60 worth of groceries when I go in there, and I do not think they give shit.

If you can't do the time don't do the crime. I have looked this one up already and out here it is a petty offense $25 fine. as is anything under $200.

What about this scenario. I have been witness to it, but I don't have the guts myself:

You fill up your shopping cart top and bottom with goods, then you go to the self checkout, and only ring up and pay for the items on the top of the cart. There is a store employee standing 15ft (<5m) away from you watching you. The trick is they hire Droids to watch the customers, these droids get paid to stand around, they are doing their job, but they are also "allowing" you to only pay for half of the items in your cart. My good friend does this all the time, probably every-time he goes to the store.

Post 666 YEAH ROCK ON gotta listen to some Maiden now. "In the night, the fires are burning bright, the ritual has begun, Satans work is done! --Bruce Dickinson

Edited by Artemis Entreri, : POST 666

Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by jar, posted 11-18-2011 3:52 PM Artemis Entreri has not yet responded
 Message 43 by Modulous, posted 11-18-2011 4:21 PM Artemis Entreri has responded
 Message 44 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-18-2011 4:23 PM Artemis Entreri has responded
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 11-18-2011 4:43 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30920
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 42 of 270 (641330)
11-18-2011 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Artemis Entreri
11-18-2011 3:39 PM


Re: fraud
Just another example of stealing.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Artemis Entreri, posted 11-18-2011 3:39 PM Artemis Entreri has not yet responded

  
Modulous
Member (Idle past 27 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 43 of 270 (641334)
11-18-2011 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Artemis Entreri
11-18-2011 3:39 PM


Re: fraud
really minor fraud considering I buy hippy organic milk, and vegan mayonnaise, and a ton of other crap that costs twice as much as anywhere else.

My job partially revolves around catching fraudsters. This is the same rationalization that credit card fraudsters and insurance fraudsters come up with all the time. Just a FYI.

so I save $7.50 on the tea, $5 on coffee, and $10 on candy, I still get $60 worth of groceries when I go in there, and I do not think they give shit.

If that were true, you would not need the deceptive practices and you could approach them honestly and say 'I am providing you with large profit margins on the rest of my goods, can I get a discount on this tea?' If they really don't give a shit, as you say...

If you can't do the time don't do the crime. I have looked this one up already and out here it is a petty offense $25 fine. as is anything under $200.

This is a criminal morality, not the kind of morality you should aspire to I would have thought. The fact that you looked this up, means you also know it is a criminal offense, just one that is so minor so that people won't be motivated to enforce it, and even if they did you can cope with the penalty.

You fill up your shopping cart top and bottom with goods, then you go to the self checkout, and only ring up and pay for the items on the top of the cart. There is a store employee standing 15ft (<5m) away from you watching you. The trick is they hire Droids to watch the customers, these droids get paid to stand around, they are doing their job, but they are also "allowing" you to only pay for half of the items in your cart. My good friend does this all the time, probably every-time he goes to the store.

Using the apathy of employees is a tactic of fraudsters. You may not realize it, but you aren't depriving the shop of anything. They claw their losses back by overcharging their other more honest customers. So really, you are stealing a little from Mrs Miggins, from Tom Public and so on and so forth.

You're certainly not alone, many people will commit fraud, sometimes even serious fraud, if an opportunity presents itself.

Post 666

This can't go on, I must inform the law. Can this still be real
or just some crazy dream?

Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Artemis Entreri, posted 11-18-2011 3:39 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Artemis Entreri, posted 11-18-2011 5:38 PM Modulous has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16035
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 44 of 270 (641335)
11-18-2011 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Artemis Entreri
11-18-2011 3:39 PM


Re: fraud
really minor fraud considering I buy hippy organic milk, and vegan mayonnaise, and a ton of other crap that costs twice as much as anywhere else. so I save $7.50 on the tea, $5 on coffee, and $10 on candy, I still get $60 worth of groceries when I go in there, and I do not think they give shit

[...]

You fill up your shopping cart top and bottom with goods, then you go to the self checkout, and only ring up and pay for the items on the top of the cart. There is a store employee standing 15ft (<5m) away from you watching you. The trick is they hire Droids to watch the customers, these droids get paid to stand around, they are doing their job, but they are also "allowing" you to only pay for half of the items in your cart. My good friend does this all the time, probably every-time he goes to the store.

Stealing.

Look, suppose you leave your house, and while you're out someone burgles it and robs you of all your possessions. Is that theft? I would say yes. But wait! You didn't hire security guards to watch your house when you were out. You "did not give shit". So has anyone really stolen from you?

What if you did hire security guards, but they were incompetent? Well then they did "not give shit". So apparently no theft has been committed.

I think it was theft, 'cos of them taking stuff that was yours but not theirs. If you really disagree with that on principle, then perhaps you could give me your address, 'cos apparently then I could take all your stuff and you wouldn't regard it as theft.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Artemis Entreri, posted 11-18-2011 3:39 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Artemis Entreri, posted 11-18-2011 5:42 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11309
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 45 of 270 (641336)
11-18-2011 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Artemis Entreri
11-18-2011 3:39 PM


Re: fraud
Artemis is a prime example of some of the activity I encounter. At least he(you) are honest enough to tell us about it...I suspect that you are boasting. You feel better about life when you get a bargain that not everyone else gets.

Trouble is, you have set the terms for your bargain...which by the way is out and out fraud....and have informed us that you justify it in your own mind and in your own way. Fine...I appreciate your honesty and wont get mad at you personally for having the balls to discuss it with us. In a way, I understand the thrill that shoplifting often gives people. It is similar to my gambling addiction. I like the idea that I may be the unique one to win all of the money that a bunch of other suckers paid, but 95 times out of a hundred, I am just another sucker. We humans love feeling special, don't we? Heck, we can even justify our right to be exclusive.

The sad fact is, competition drives the market, and many are turning to dishonest means to get ahead in life. I hope that technology someday allows enough of a big brother presence so that everybody has to pay the same prices. I can't stand anyone getting better "deals" than I do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Artemis Entreri, posted 11-18-2011 3:39 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

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