Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 80 (8871 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 10-22-2018 1:46 AM
206 online now:
dwise1 (1 member, 205 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: paradigm of types
Post Volume:
Total: 840,525 Year: 15,348/29,783 Month: 1,292/1,502 Week: 49/241 Day: 2/47 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1
...
56
7
89
...
18NextFF
Author Topic:   Why Do People Steal?
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16041
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 91 of 270 (641397)
11-18-2011 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by ProtoTypical
11-18-2011 8:06 PM


Re: Who doesn't steal?
How many readers would engage in a cash transaction in order to avoid paying the tax? I know I would and I consider myself to be scrupulously honest.

I have declined to do so; I can't put my hand on my heart and say that I always would (I might behave differently if I was really strapped for cash).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by ProtoTypical, posted 11-18-2011 8:06 PM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Phat, posted 11-19-2011 6:23 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30920
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 92 of 270 (641398)
11-18-2011 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by ProtoTypical
11-18-2011 9:25 PM


Re: Who doesn't steal?
If it is illegal it would likely be tax evasion.

Tax evasion is no more moral than theft or fraud or assault or any other crime.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by ProtoTypical, posted 11-18-2011 9:25 PM ProtoTypical has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by ProtoTypical, posted 11-18-2011 10:07 PM jar has responded

  
ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1768
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 93 of 270 (641400)
11-18-2011 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by jar
11-18-2011 9:41 PM


Re: Who doesn't steal?
Tax evasion is no more moral than theft or fraud or assault or any other crime.

I can't agree with that as it is too broad.

Perhaps 'scroupulously honest' is the wrong phrase but there can be no crime without a victim. If I deprive 33 million Canadians out of $13 worth of sales tax is there a real victim or just a theoretical victim? This is not the same as the Royal Bank of Canada legally avoiding taxes on $billions worth of economic activity. Illegality and immorality are not synonymous.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by jar, posted 11-18-2011 9:41 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by jar, posted 11-18-2011 10:10 PM ProtoTypical has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30920
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 94 of 270 (641401)
11-18-2011 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by ProtoTypical
11-18-2011 10:07 PM


Re: Who doesn't steal?
Sorry but that seems to be simply a cop out, a sophomoric attempt to say that "My crime is not a bad as it could have been".

It is also just plain silly to say that any illegal act is comparable to a legal act.

Yes, illegality and morality do not go hand in hand, but in your example one act is clearly illegal.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by ProtoTypical, posted 11-18-2011 10:07 PM ProtoTypical has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by ProtoTypical, posted 11-18-2011 10:30 PM jar has responded

  
ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1768
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 95 of 270 (641403)
11-18-2011 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by jar
11-18-2011 10:10 PM


Re: Who doesn't steal?
No, I am not saying that my crime could have been worse. I am saying that, although it is illegal, it is not a crime. And even though the accounting prowess of the Royal Bank of Canada is, most likely, perfectly legal, it may not be moral.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by jar, posted 11-18-2011 10:10 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by jar, posted 11-18-2011 10:35 PM ProtoTypical has responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 96 of 270 (641404)
11-18-2011 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Percy
11-18-2011 6:03 PM


Re: Creationist vs Evolutionist Inhibitions
Percy writes:

One of the things creationists teach us everyday is that people have little difficulty convincing themselves of the truth of whatever it is they want to believe.

Biblical fundamentalist Christian creationists have a fear of God who's book says things like "whom he loves he chastens; vengeance is mine says Jehovah; do to others what you would have them to do to you; and Be sure, your sins will find you out."

Evolutionists, who have little difficulty convincing themselves that a tiny chaotic hot speck they call the zero event, over enough time, emerged naturally into all of the observable orderly wonders of the Universe, may be more likely to convince themselves that there is no consequence for stealing.

They observe in the observable world at hand, chaotic disorder does not tend toward order outside of a planner designer.

Evolutionists wouldn't tend to factor in an operative god to reckon with in their naturalistic mind-set.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Percy, posted 11-18-2011 6:03 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-18-2011 11:12 PM Buzsaw has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30920
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 97 of 270 (641405)
11-18-2011 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by ProtoTypical
11-18-2011 10:30 PM


Re: Who doesn't steal?
If it is illegal it is a crime.

Yes, the behavior of the Bank of Canada may not be moral, but it is legal.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by ProtoTypical, posted 11-18-2011 10:30 PM ProtoTypical has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by ProtoTypical, posted 11-18-2011 10:44 PM jar has responded
 Message 102 by Omnivorous, posted 11-18-2011 11:25 PM jar has responded

  
ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1768
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 98 of 270 (641406)
11-18-2011 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by jar
11-18-2011 10:35 PM


Re: Who doesn't steal?
If it is illegal it is a crime.

I disagree. I think that you have to hurt someone to have committed a crime and I think that if you have hurt someone then you have committed a crime regardless of the legality of your actions.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by jar, posted 11-18-2011 10:35 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by jar, posted 11-18-2011 10:51 PM ProtoTypical has responded
 Message 101 by Omnivorous, posted 11-18-2011 11:24 PM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30920
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 99 of 270 (641407)
11-18-2011 10:51 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by ProtoTypical
11-18-2011 10:44 PM


Make up your own definition.
Amazing how you can make up your own definitions to justify behavior.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by ProtoTypical, posted 11-18-2011 10:44 PM ProtoTypical has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by ProtoTypical, posted 11-18-2011 11:33 PM jar has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16041
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 100 of 270 (641408)
11-18-2011 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Buzsaw
11-18-2011 10:31 PM


Re: Creationist vs Evolutionist Inhibitions
Biblical fundamentalist Christian creationists have a fear of God who's book says things like "whom he loves he chastens; vengeance is mine says Jehovah; do to others what you would have them to do to you; and Be sure, your sins will find you out."

The trouble is that they also believe that God forgives them all their sins as a reward for believing that God forgives them all their sins as a reward for believing that God forgives them all their sins as a reward for ... wait, this sentence is becoming infinitely recursive.

Which at least some of them seem to regard as a moral carte blanche.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Buzsaw, posted 11-18-2011 10:31 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Buzsaw, posted 11-19-2011 3:31 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 893 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(1)
Message 101 of 270 (641409)
11-18-2011 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by ProtoTypical
11-18-2011 10:44 PM


Re: Who doesn't steal?
"Steal a little and they throw you in jail
Steal a lot and they make you king"

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by ProtoTypical, posted 11-18-2011 10:44 PM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply

    
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 893 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 102 of 270 (641410)
11-18-2011 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by jar
11-18-2011 10:35 PM


Re: Who doesn't steal?
jar writes:

If it is illegal it is a crime.

Slavery was legal.

The Holocaust was legal.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by jar, posted 11-18-2011 10:35 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by jar, posted 11-19-2011 10:22 AM Omnivorous has acknowledged this reply

    
ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1768
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


(1)
Message 103 of 270 (641411)
11-18-2011 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by jar
11-18-2011 10:51 PM


Re: Make up your own definition.
Amazing how you can make up your own definitions to justify behavior.

Yes, I realize that I am against the grain. Tell me though, when you hear the word crime do not imagine a victim?

I have one rule and that is to treat others as I would be treated. If you have a tree and choose to cut it down and sell it to your neighbour I honestly do not feel that I have any right to any portion of the deal. If you are a bank earning billions off of the day to day economy of the nation I think that you owe something to the nation.

You are absolutely right that if I do something illegal then I am labelled a criminal but it is not me who has usurped the definition.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by jar, posted 11-18-2011 10:51 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by jar, posted 11-19-2011 10:25 AM ProtoTypical has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30920
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 104 of 270 (641429)
11-19-2011 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by Omnivorous
11-18-2011 11:25 PM


Re: Who doesn't steal?
Yes. And both were eventually change to be illegal, well the former is kinda illegal and something like the Holocaust is illegal if you lose.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Omnivorous, posted 11-18-2011 11:25 PM Omnivorous has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30920
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 105 of 270 (641430)
11-19-2011 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by ProtoTypical
11-18-2011 11:33 PM


Re: Make up your own definition.
When you don't pay taxes due there is a victim. It was also YOU that said we should assume that the act was illegal.

It does not matter what you consider right or wrong, if it is illegal then it is a crime.

It really is that simple.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by ProtoTypical, posted 11-18-2011 11:33 PM ProtoTypical has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Phat, posted 11-19-2011 11:15 AM jar has responded
 Message 115 by ProtoTypical, posted 11-19-2011 11:55 PM jar has responded

  
Prev1
...
56
7
89
...
18NextFF
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2018