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Author Topic:   The Giant Pool Of Money. Implications
Phat
Member
Posts: 18337
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 89 of 423 (615797)
05-16-2011 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Jon
05-16-2011 6:40 PM


Re: What Is Money?
Jon writes:
Is there a possibility that life in the U.S. may get even worse than it is now?
It's not just a possibility. But you knew that already.
Just another opportunity for me to gripe! We Americans need to unify before the foreign people take all of the good jobs and money.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Jon, posted 05-16-2011 6:40 PM Jon has not replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18337
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 103 of 423 (615872)
05-17-2011 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by jar
05-16-2011 6:45 PM


Re: What Is Money?
jar writes:
Which has more value, a dollars worth of gold or a dollars worth of lead?
they have the same value "in dollars". What if we used Euros? Which has more value? An ounce of gold, a loaf of bread, or a giant stone from Yak?The bread is the only item that we can gauge based on our unchanging human need. But wait...human need even changes. Should a garment worker in Indonesia expect the same wage as a garment worker in Atlanta? (No, because the wage is based on need...on what that individual needs to buy and purchase for their survival. 30 cents an hour goes farther for one than for the other.)
jar writes:
I imagine that Phat started this thread because he was listening to Christian Radio yet again. It seems that the folk selling vitamins and health foods and gold and prayer hankies know their demographics and so sell where they know the suckers are lined up.
Actually I was listening to Alex Jones but am keeping an open and skeptical mind. It was here that I first heard of the alarm being sounded if the dollar was dropped globally for being a reserve currency. The way it was explained, other nations have to be more disciplined since they cant simply print more of their own currency and have it pass muster globally...whereas the US can and does and has increased our money supply and not be forced to be accountable as much. Beyond that, I dont know how or why this all works.
jar writes:
What value is added by being a Global Reserve Currency and do you even know what that means?
This is all I have:
Ron Paul explains that the free ride since Breton Woods has come to and end and that we wont be able to exploit as much with a new reserve currency system that we cant control. Paul claims that such a new system would "crash the dollar" and this is what rightly worries me and should worry every American.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by jar, posted 05-16-2011 6:45 PM jar has replied

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 Message 105 by jar, posted 05-17-2011 6:57 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18337
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 106 of 423 (615876)
05-17-2011 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by jar
05-17-2011 6:57 PM


Re: What Is Money?
jar writes:
Would it make any difference if we abandoned the dollar and adopted the Euro?
Honestly? I dont know. I am asking because I worry about the US undergoing an internal crises. What if our money alone becomes worthless? How will we who are paid in dollars survive? I am championing the rights of fairness rather than exploitation by the rest of the world. I am asking what we must do to remain in the game with our assets intact and valued the same as a Europeans would be. (or the prevailing standard)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by jar, posted 05-17-2011 6:57 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by jar, posted 05-17-2011 7:15 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18337
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 108 of 423 (615878)
05-17-2011 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by jar
05-17-2011 7:15 PM


Re: What Is Money?
quote:
To remain in the game we need to educate the current crop of two year olds and all of their little siblings that come after them, get rid of all Local School Boards and instil a National Curriculum, raise taxes drastically, particularly on the upper middle class and above, remove the stops on the Social Security taxes, increase the governmental oversight of industry, create a single payer National Healthcare system, re-regulate all utilities and much of transportation and communications and follow through for about 25-50 years.
The problem is lack of consensus. Politicians seem to waste so much time in deadlock. Your ideas sound rational and effective, but implementation remains illusive.

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 Message 107 by jar, posted 05-17-2011 7:15 PM jar has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18337
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 142 of 423 (616114)
05-19-2011 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Modulous
05-19-2011 2:47 AM


Re: Good Inflation......? Bad Inflation.....?
in the Twenties, an ounce of gold would buy a new suit for a man. Today, it still will.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Modulous, posted 05-19-2011 2:47 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18337
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 155 of 423 (643060)
12-04-2011 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by crashfrog
10-07-2010 11:51 AM


Re: The American Mindset
Crashfrog writes:
Currently, the inflation rate is next to zero despite significant deficit spending by the government. Why is that? Because supply so currently outstrips demand. In fact the American economy is missing an estimated 1.5 trillion in demand for goods and services. Until handing out dollar bills actually increases competition for the finite number of goods and services available, inflation is impossible and it's stupid to worry about it.
I've read lately that inflation will increase dramatically in the coming five years. Never really bothered to read why, but I will look into it. Do you disagree that it will occur?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by crashfrog, posted 10-07-2010 11:51 AM crashfrog has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18337
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 174 of 423 (643150)
12-05-2011 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by jar
12-04-2011 9:12 PM


Thars Gold in them thar shills
jar writes:
Where are they still used to back currency?
Here is one such suggestion by the president of the World Bank.
quote:
Although textbooks may view gold as the old money, markets are using gold as an alternative monetary asset today, said (World Bank chief Robert)Zoellick.
He said such a reform would reflect economic realities and should be considered as a successor to the existing global currency paradigm known as Bretton Woods II.
World Bank chief calls for new gold standard
Personally I'm not sure its a good idea, since China owns so much gold. We certainly don't want to help the competition, but since we are in debt, we have little choice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by jar, posted 12-04-2011 9:12 PM jar has replied

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 Message 175 by jar, posted 12-05-2011 10:54 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18337
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 176 of 423 (643165)
12-05-2011 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by jar
12-05-2011 10:54 AM


Re: Thars Gold in them thar shills
Since the dollar is the only currency that can be printed and hyper inflated, it gives the US consumers an edge. If China and the rest agree to back a new system, whether using gold or not, the US consumers will suffer a drop in our already embattled standard of living.

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 Message 175 by jar, posted 12-05-2011 10:54 AM jar has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18337
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 178 of 423 (643283)
12-05-2011 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by jar
12-05-2011 2:58 PM


Re: Thars Gold in them thar shills
quote:
The US then discovered a new way to convince the world of the high value of paper. A deal was struck to price oil in dollars, which led to the creation of the "petro dollar". While not as stable as the gold backed dollar of the past, the new petro dollar has allowed the US dollar to maintain its "world reserve currency" status.
What exactly does the phrase "world reserve currency" mean then? This is a special status whereby the world's major economies have agreed to make the dollar the universal currency through which most international business is carried out. This also means that most commodities are priced in dollars and that commodities trading done in other currencies requires a conversion to dollars.
Over the past year the calls from heads of state and finance ministers around the world have been getting louder and more frequent to supplant the dollar with a new world reserve currency or just abandon the dollar all together.
That was Conservative Truth.org
I can probably find two or three other confirmations that the dollar is unofficially used as the exchange medium.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

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 Message 177 by jar, posted 12-05-2011 2:58 PM jar has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18337
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 181 of 423 (643294)
12-06-2011 3:28 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by jar
12-05-2011 10:35 PM


Looking Towards The Future
jar writes:
Trading is done by conversion based on the then current exchange rate.
Do you understand what that means?
Not exactly. I am googling for answers and for better questions to ask. The central premise of my rant was that if the United States continues to be irresponsible in handling our debt problems, the rest of the world may pass us by. And that's not fair for average Joe's like me who have every right to be as prosperous as any China-man.
China Plans Path to Economic Hegemony
China would like to make the yuan one of the world's anchor currencies, forcing other countries to maintain reserves of Chinese money and providing significant advantages for Beijing....
Even before he left Beijing, the visiting head of state had predicted that the dominant capitalist power could expect to see a redistribution of global power. In written interviews with the Wall Street Journal and the Washington Post, the Chinese leader said that the world's monetary system, with the US dollar as its reserve currency, was a "product of the past."
So evidently reserve currency=anchor currency.
China's long-term goal is to become a country with an anchor currency. If that happens, other countries will have to maintain reserves of the yuan instead of the current reserve currencies, the dollar and the euro. China could then use its own currency to conduct transactions, gaining more favorable terms as a result, in its global shopping spree, such as in the commodities markets.
And yes, this is a problem. You have mentioned many times before that we in the US need a fifty year plan to rebuild our nation. Reality shows us, however, that our Congressional committees can't even agree on what to cut from the budget. Other nations see this and are calling for the dollar to get booted out of its anchor currency spot which gives us favorable terms in pricing...as in the c ase of oil, for example. Right? And those Chinese have studied up on this!
Years ago, Hu and the Politburo attended secret lectures in which Chinese professors explained the history of the rise and fall of major powers. During these sessions, the Chinese leaders realized that no modern country has ever become a superpower without a reserve currency.
The United States superseded the British Empire after World War II, when the dollar replaced the British pound as the dominant currency in the global financial system. This explains why Beijing has pursued the internationalization of the yuan since the outbreak of the global financial crisis, which the Chinese believe has irrevocably harmed their American rival.
What I am assuming from this article is that what advantages China stands to gain are the advantages which we now have, yet are losing. For example....
In order to have a reserve currency, China would have to give up all of this. It would have to gradually appreciate its currency, perhaps even allowing it to float freely, so that the exchange rate could be based on the real value of the currency and the strength of China's economy. This would make the country's exports substantially more expensive and would drastically curb growth.
Thus, the strength of our economy is tied into the dollars future success or failure now!
Apparently, China is not quite ready to take over yet.
This is because the Chinese cannot offer an alternative to the dollar. To keep its currency artificially low, the central bank sweeps together foreign currency in the domestic banking system, as if it were wielding a giant broom. In this way, China increased its foreign currency reserves last year by $450 billion to $2.85 trillion (330 million to 2.08 billion). Beijing invests a large portion of the funds in American treasury bonds, thus financing the debt management policy of the still dominant Western superpower.
Now of course, much of our problem is traced to the fact that 90% of Americans don't understand this stuff at all. I know I don't, but am attempting to use deductive reasoning to try and make sense of it all. I read a lot of opinions, blogs, articles and papers from many different sources. Much of it is simply untrue, and its my responsibility to try and make sense of it all. As an example, I wondered why it seemed as if America was turning against itself.
Why do the competing ideologies of the two party system cause almost a national paralysis in our Congressional system? It irks me that these politicians get paid for concluding that stalemate is the only option! Compounding this problem is the fact that the American public wants instant gratification, a return to the good old days, and the warm and comfortable feeling that we had during the aberration period after World War II.
Jon Jost,a filmmaker, has lived since 1962 in Chicago, San Francisco, Ben Lomond, Los Angeles, Leucadia (Ca.); Cottage Grove (OR), Kalispell, Butte (MT), Berlin, London, Lisbon, Frankfurt, Paris, Rome, New York City, Portland, and Lincoln NE. He presently lives, single again, in Seoul, S Korea, where he quit his job as Distinguished Professor at Yonsei University in July. His blog talks of the demise of America based on his perspective, and has lots of great photographs and artwork. He explains why the middle class in America is so mad at the so-called 1% of the wealthiest people.
JonJostWeblog writes:
Unaware of where their previous wealth was secured — by imperial/capitalist exploitation — when the same is applied directly to themselves, the citizenry of the once all-powerful USA finds itself grasping at straws.
Capitalism is running low on third world people to exploit, and thus we are turning on ourselves.
The business of America is business, said Calvin Coolidge, and for the most part it seems Americans have taken that mantra as their own. We live, it seems, to make money. The politics of the moment merely underline this old American adage, as Representative Ryan sells his snake-oil plan and President Obama retorts with his. Shall we or shall we not throw Granny and Gramps under the bus? Or when and how?
The system is broken, and Jost also agrees with something you have said a time or two, jar:
Inexorably the nation moves towards its fiscal truth, which certainly no elected politician can utter, except in the most oblique of manners: the bill has come due, and it must be paid. We don’t really say from whom the bill comes and we don’t really say why. Instead we discuss who must pay it, and how. The reason is that an honest look all points to the very system which America has raised to a religion, that good old Free Market Economy Capitalism, which, left to its own devices does whatever is needed to make a bigger faster buck. If towards that end ravaging the landscape, selling sugar and oil saturated food to ever bigger and sicker customers, peddling fast gas guzzling cars, shipping factories and production systems to lands of cheaper labor and less onerous regulations, building a giant near-private military establishment to protect our global interests, and developing an all pervasive mass media to sell lies to the citizenry all looks to make the quickest fortune, then America will do it. That’s how capitalism works, and it has worked its magic on America.
Getting back to the Giant Pool Of Money, I worry that once the pool leaves the hands of Americans and becomes the deposits of foreigners, it will be nearly impossible to get it back.
And yes, we have discussed education. My question, among many, is why no politician simply lays it all out for what Buzsaw calls "The Sheeple".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by jar, posted 12-05-2011 10:35 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by jar, posted 12-06-2011 10:10 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18337
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 183 of 423 (643343)
12-06-2011 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by jar
12-06-2011 10:10 AM


Re: Looking Towards The Future
jar writes:
The strength of the dollar is dependent on the US economy, not on its status.
OK.
Should the creation of jobs be minimum wage jobs at the expense of higher paid jobs? This recession has shown us how vulnerable the Middle Class are to bumps in the economy. The wealthier people seemingly know of no comparable hardship.
Could America survive without the Forbes 400?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by jar, posted 12-06-2011 10:10 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by jar, posted 12-06-2011 12:20 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18337
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 185 of 423 (643365)
12-06-2011 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by jar
12-06-2011 12:20 PM


Re: Looking Towards The Future
jar writes:
have no idea what your post has to do with either the topic or currency exchange?
Earlier, I said:
I worry that once the pool leaves the hands of Americans and becomes the deposits of foreigners, it will be nearly impossible to get it back.
What I am getting at is that our own wealthy are taking our money from us and keeping it for themselves.
The U.S. middle class is under attack not only by foreign competition but from our domestic monied class.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by jar, posted 12-06-2011 12:20 PM jar has replied

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 Message 186 by jar, posted 12-06-2011 2:43 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18337
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


(1)
Message 187 of 423 (643432)
12-06-2011 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by jar
12-06-2011 2:43 PM


Re: Looking Towards The Future
jar writes:
There is no attack from foreign competition.
They are underbidding us and forcing us to work for less.
Take I.T. workers. The ones from India will work for $40,000 a year, half what US ones used to be paid. A successful competitive effort is construed by many as an "attack" upon our very way of life and standard of living.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by jar, posted 12-06-2011 2:43 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by jar, posted 12-06-2011 9:14 PM Phat has replied
 Message 189 by DrJones*, posted 12-06-2011 9:17 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18337
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 190 of 423 (643521)
12-07-2011 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by jar
12-06-2011 9:14 PM


Re: Looking Towards The Future
jar writes:
They are not forcing you to work for less.
If enough new employees agree to work for less of a wage than I am making, they very well could vote my wage down if there came an ultimatum.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by jar, posted 12-06-2011 9:14 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by jar, posted 12-07-2011 5:08 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18337
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 193 of 423 (643528)
12-07-2011 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by jar
12-07-2011 5:08 PM


Hollowed Out Middle Class
jar writes:
And sure, it has always been true that "If enough new employees agree to work for less of a wage than I am making, they very well could vote my wage down if there came an ultimatum."
People will take scraps if they get hungry enough.
Fareed Zacharias writes:
CNN: You wrote in your Time cover story that the American middle class is being "hollowed out." What does that mean?
Fareed Zakaria: Well, if you think about it, middle class to most Americans means somebody who has a good high school education, somebody who didn't go to fancy schools or grow up in a fancy suburb, but somebody who is working on a factory floor as a foreman, or a manager, or maybe in sales or administration.
What's happened to these people is that these jobs have a certain kind of routine nature to them. What technology has done over the last 10 or 15 years, it's become possible to do many of these tasks through computer programs. Now computer programs need to be monitored and supervised, but it takes far fewer people to do that ... and the people supervising computers need to be more high-end, more skilled people.
They wont get paid even as much as we make now, however. They will have more skills and get paid less. Watch it happen at your local grocery store.
Its a shame that the US middle class is being exploited by corporate interests who see labor as a mere number on an expense sheet.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by jar, posted 12-07-2011 5:08 PM jar has replied

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