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Author Topic:   Occupy Wall Street, London and Evereywhere Else
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 150 of 208 (643714)
12-10-2011 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by Buzsaw
12-10-2011 8:04 PM


Re: hear from a conservatively inclined but not entirely lunatic person
Buzsaw writes:
Never in my life have we taken food stamps, Medicare, Medicaid, prescription drugs, etc. We would qualify for food stamps, but take none because we don't need them. We want nothing at the expense of others.
Why do you distinguish between Social Security and food stamps, Medicare and Medicaid?
We all pay taxes for all of those. You could not receive Social Security without the contributions of others.
Having said the above, we trust God and pray about everything. God reveals himself in unusual ways, so as to show us he exists and did it.
So those who have needed food stamps, Medicare or Medicaid failed God?
It sounds to me that you have had the good fortune to require no major surgeries or treatments for potentially fatal illnesses, or assistance from others, and you think it's due to your virtue.
Maybe you need to re-read the Book of Job--you sound like one of his neighbors.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Buzsaw, posted 12-10-2011 8:04 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Buzsaw, posted 12-11-2011 9:18 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(6)
Message 172 of 208 (643899)
12-12-2011 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by Buzsaw
12-11-2011 9:18 PM


It rains on the just and unjust alike.
Buzsaw writes:
The difference is that the Social Security contributions I've paid in were a whole lot more than I would have had to pay into a private retirement plan and receive the same return.
That is simply not true: rarely has one man's post been so wrong about so much.
I've challenged you on this claim before, and you have never offered any proof or analysis to support it. Meanwhile, the Social Security Administration's calculations show, as crashfrog has stated, that SS contributions are exhausted in an average of less than five years.
Got evidence? No? I didn't think so. You'd rather keep claiming the same falsehood, over and over.
We call that propaganda, Buz.
I don't have to be sick to receive Social Security. On the other hand if I take care of my body as I do, there is no need to use Medicare, etc. Social security was suppose to be a retirement plan for all.
Medicare is health insurance for all elderly, just as Social Security is retirement income for all elderly.
Do you truly believe that only people who fail to take proper care of their bodies develop illnesses or injuries?
The Social Security $$ I paid into the system decades ago would have bought 25 to 35 cent a gallon for gas. For Social Security $$ I'm getting back I have to pay $3 to $4 for a gallon of gas. So you young-uns hadn't ought to complain. You're paying $3 to $4 gas money in. If you were to retire on $3 to $4 gas money you'd get a whole lot better deal than us old folks are getting.
What? Are you slipping into senile dementia, Buz? Maybe you will need that Medicare after all.
First, I'm not a "young 'un"--gas was 25 cents a gallon when I first started paying taxes on income. At that time, the SS payroll tax was about 4%; now it is 12.4% (lowered to 10.4% by Pres. Obama, though the GOP is determined to bring it back up).
So, like you, I earned SS credits while paying a much lower tax rate than the "young 'uns" do now. Unlike you, I know that gas will probably cost $35/gallon when the young 'uns retire 40-45 years from now...though the GOP wants to raise the retirement age to 70, so maybe that's $40 a gallon 50 years from now.
The fact is, Buz, that you made out like a bandit on Social Security. You got the lower tax rate AND the lower retirement age. It's that no-account black kid flipping burgers in Herkimer who is paying your Social Security stipend, not you.
It's not fortune. I pray daily for God to provide my needs, keep me well and strong and protect me from harm and loss. Then I pray for the same for all on my prayer list, especially my beloved family and Christian brothers and sisters who know God. This has been often how God reveals himself to be real in a personal way. This, coupled with all of the other corroborating evidence of the Biblical record is why I'm doggedly stick with Christianity.
So all those people who haven't been protected from harm and loss didn't pray right, or hard enough, or something.
This sanctimony is the slimy underbelly of all world religions: if you were right with God, this bad thing wouldn't have happened to you. Whether it's karma or "blessings on the righteous" or Allah's will, the bottom line remains the same: I know how to push God's buttons, and He takes care of me--too bad for you, and your misfortune proves your apostasy.
I've read the book of Job numerous times. Those OT accounts of the patriarchs etc never bore me. They are so much more inspiring than anything in either the Johnny come lately Koran and Book Of Mormon. Their immensely more inspiring than any other religious book. Thus The Bible being the global best seller for so long.
Apparently you read Job without any understanding. To summarize: The most righteous man on earth is tested by God. All is taken from him: his family, his flocks, his health. His wife tells him to curse God and die; his neighbors tell him that he must have offended God in some way--he must be guilty of something to have earned this horrible fate. Job tells them, no, I did not, misfortune rains on the just and unjust alike, and he demands that God answer for this state of affairs.
God appears in a whirlwind, chastens Job with His vastness and mystery--and then tells Job's neighbors that Job spoke the truth.
However righteous you think you are, Buz, and whatever good fortune in health and security you enjoy, you didn't earn it--just like you didn't earn your Social Security.
I'd have thought a Christian, of all people, would understand that.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Buzsaw, posted 12-11-2011 9:18 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(2)
Message 173 of 208 (643900)
12-12-2011 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by crashfrog
12-11-2011 8:57 PM


My G-g-generation
crashfrog writes:
I don't understand what happened to the Baby Boomers that caused them to turn on their own kids and grandkids, but its pandemic at this point. Generational warfare has already begun; it was declared when we started diverting funding for higher education and public schools to preserve Social Security and pensions.
Ahem.
I'd just like to point out a few things.
1. I respect immensely the work you've done in this thread. I sometimes play with calling you brashfrog in my head but your energy and directness are also what I like. You've become one of my favorite posters here.
2. Buzsaw is not a Baby Boomer.
3. Most Baby Boomers do not yet collect Social Security, and the age at which we can collect keeps moving up--and its value keeps moving down.
4. Polls show that 70+ percent of Americans want to preserve Social Security in its current form--of necessity, that includes a lot of Boomers.
5. The U.S. can certainly afford Social Security, Medicare and world class education for all. It's that gaping wound in our psyche that hemmorhages money to the Pentagon that cripples the attempt.
6. A lot of us really did try to change the world, but I guess we didn't sing loud enough, or something. Also, contrary to rumor, we didn't invent sex, but we did give it a damn good shot in the arm when it was desperately needed.
I share your moral horror at elderly Americans who embrace the GOP's Faustian bargain--don't worry, vote for us and you'll still get yours (paid for by your children and grandchildren), but we're gonna cut those youngsters off entirely.
The choice has never been so clear, at least not in my lifetime. I think most elders (and most Boomers) who like that generational warfare deal would vote for the bastards who conceived it anyway--but I don't think most Boomers will.
Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.
Edited by Omnivorous, : "short in the arm" heh

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by crashfrog, posted 12-11-2011 8:57 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
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