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Author Topic:   Where Did The (Great Flood) Water Come From And Where Did It Go?
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 95 of 432 (645029)
12-22-2011 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Trixie
12-07-2011 5:45 AM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi Trixie,
Trixie writes:
How can the water be the bottom layer of a water-plant-sediment sandwich? Surely sediment is sediment because it sediments out of water and falls to the bottom.
Water can be buried very easily. I have buried much in my lifetime on construction projects.
But I am not talking about sediment layers that is laid down over a long period of time. I am talking about a time in the past when the Earth was bombarded by asteroids and comets.
The life forms that produced the oil that is in the Earth had to be covered before they decomposed. That leads me to believe that it did not take long to cover the plants and animals that produced the trillions of barrels of oil in the ground. The more decomposition occurred the more life forms that would have been required to poduce the oil available.
It takes 196,000 pounds of buried plant material to produce 1 gallon of gasoline. There are 42 gallons of gasoline per barrel of oil. As of 2000 we had used over a trillion barrels of oil. There is estimated to be over 6 trillion barrels of oil still in the Earth.
7 trillion barrels of oil = 1.372e+18 tons of plant material required. This does not include any material for natural gas or coal. I don't know but I think we are talking about a lot of plant and life material to produce our oil must less our natural gas and coal.
How did all that material get covered? Remember it had to be covered before it decomposed.
Trixie writes:
Yes, there will be some water left, but not alot.
There will be just as much as the sediment can absorb.
But if you dig a 40' wide hole 10' deep and it fills with water you can then take dirt and a buldozer and cover the hole and some of the water will escape but if you know how to fill the hole with the water trapped you can cover about 75% of the water. I seen guys do that by not knowing how to properly build a roadbed that had been mucked out.
Small asteroids hitting the Earth could cover lots of water and bury it in the Earth as well as the water migrating to a lower place.
Now if you don't believe the Earth was formed by accretion you will disagree that the water could be covered and exist in the Earth.
Trixie writes:
I'm not sure if you're suggesting that the size of the earth grew because of constant sedimentation or because of asteroid impacts.
If the Earth was not formed by accreation, how was it formed?
Trixie writes:
If you're suggesting that the size increased because of continual sedimentation, you're forgetting that the sediment had to come from another part of the earth, so nothing is being added it's just being rearranged.
If all layers are caused by sedimentation what formed the original Earth the size it is?
If that happened, how did the oil get so deep in the Earth?
How did the water that is deep in the Earth get there with and under the oil?
Trixie writes:
How much pressure are you going to need to displace enough water to flood the entire surface of the earth? What fills the void left by the water exiting the the "chamber" it was in?
When an oil well is drilled the oil is under great pressure as well as the water that is there. X amount of oil or water will flow out of the well without being replaced by anything due to the amount of pressure that is exerted upon the liquid. When the pressure equalizes the flow will stop. At that time pressure has to be pumped into the well to cause the flow to resume.
If there was enough water under enough pressure to flood the land mass at the time of the flood there would be no problem. At the present there is 7 to 10 times the amount of water in the Earth as there is in our oceans.
If all that water that is under pressure was released into the oceans how much would they rise?
It is really foolish to say there is not enough water to cover the Earth with water. The water is there it would be a matter of getting it out, and to the surface.
But the amount of water required would be determined by the elevation of the land mass at the time of the flood.
It is a fact that there is contintental crust in the middle of the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans as well as a lot of the other bodies of water. How did contintental crust get there? The only way that is possible is that it was dry land at one time.
In Genesis 1:1 when the Heavens and the Earth was created there was no seas. There was only a river that forked into 4 rivers that went out to water the land.
Trixie writes:
So far all you've committed to is a minimum of 1 inch for the land elevation which takes no account of a hill for the ark to come to rest on.
The reason I can commit to a minimum of 1" is because there had to be dry land. Now how much higher the elevation would be is unknown. As for as a hill being there it is not required to satisfy the text, as the text refers to a region not a specific elevation.
Trixie writes:
You need to work out how much water needs to be in your "chambers" to flood the entire earth in your model, then see if it's feasible to have "chambers" containing that amount, then a mechanism to get it out and added to the existing volume of water a the time of the flood.
There is 7 to 10 times the amount of water in the Earth as there is in the oceans. That is enough water to cover Mt Everest without any problem.
All that water that is in the Earth under the oceans is under very high pressure. If you drill a hole into a pocket of water under the ocean it will flow out until the pressure equalizes. Since you only need a small portion of the water to flood the Earth that should be no problem. There is a hole in the ocean that you could drop Mt Everst in and it would be covered by over a mile of water. Since we would only need enough to cover it with a maximum of 36' of water to satisfy the text. One ocean full should be enough leaving 6 to 9 ocean fulls still in the Earth.
Water is there under intense pressure.
If released from the fountains of the deep the water would fill the oceans due to the pressure that would be exerted on the water in the Earth.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Trixie, posted 12-07-2011 5:45 AM Trixie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Trixie, posted 12-22-2011 5:05 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 96 of 432 (645034)
12-22-2011 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by edge
12-07-2011 8:15 AM


Re: Water
Hi edge,
edge writes:
Have you actually studied the geologic record? Or do you just believe what professional creationist websites tell you?
I have done a lot of studying.
I never consult creationist websites. Most of them are clueless.
edge writes:
And yet that is common in the YEC community.
I am not YEC.
I am older universe than you are.
edge writes:
I always prefer to see the evidence. Creationists don't really have any.
I have asked for a lot of evidence here and have been given very little by the other group.
In fact there is enough water in the Earth to fill our oceans 7 to 10 times according to which scientist you agree with.
How did that water get there?
Was Earth formed by accretion?
How much pressure is the water in the Earth under the oceans under?
If I understand correctly some of those wells have in excess of 10,000 psi. That is a lot of pressure.
If the fountains of the deep opened up that pressure would force a lot of that water into our oceans?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by edge, posted 12-07-2011 8:15 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by edge, posted 12-23-2011 12:05 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 97 of 432 (645040)
12-22-2011 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Coragyps
12-07-2011 9:08 AM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi Coragyps,
Coragyps writes:
No "pressure below it" is involved, unless it's a water drive.
When the pressure equalizes do they use an injection method to get more oil out of the ground?
And if the oil was another 27,000 feet deep what would be the result?
Would the pressure be greater due to the heat that would exist at that depth?
Well head pressure in the Gulf is in excess of 10,000 psi. That is what caused the oil to pour out in the Gulf with the BP oil spill.
By the way the Yates oil field in Texas had wells as shallow as 20'.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Coragyps, posted 12-07-2011 9:08 AM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Theodoric, posted 12-22-2011 5:00 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 103 of 432 (645138)
12-23-2011 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Trixie
12-22-2011 5:05 PM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi Trixie,
Trixie writes:
Now this is where you really need to provide evidence. Exactly where is this water? How was it found? Is it a single large body of water? Is it multiple smaller bodies of water? Is it actually in the form of liquid water? Is it in the form of tiny amounts in rock pores or in hydrates? Is it available to exit where it is as a fountain?
First thing is nobody can go down into the lithosphere and check out what is in and under the crust of the Earth at the bottom of the oceans.
Secondly there is very little concern for what exists there except oil and gas.
But to answer your questions the water is liquid in the lithosphere as it is on the continents and as you go deeper the water would become steam as it is heated by the core. If you go deeper the water would become superheated steam which would produce tremendous upward pressure due to the extreme heat. This comes from being a steam engineer. Then if I understand what scientist think happens is that below the superheated steam the water would become crystals of some sort.
Point of information. Superheated steam can reach 815C.
Now the only way to find out if there is water is in the lithosphere is to drill a hole in it and see if there is water there. But there is very little information on that subject as all people want to talk about is the gas and oil.
But I did find a engineer (Luis Rivas, completion engineer, deepwater exploration and production for Chevron North America) that deals with exactly what we are talking about and he talks about the acquifer that is there as well as the water being under the oil in wells and creating problems for his well drilling. You can find Here what Luis said.
Trixie writes:
Maybe, but filling in a hole with water in it is different from the behaviour of solids in a large body of water. For a start solids tend to sink, displacing the water so I don't think your comparison is valid.
If you take a 16 ounce glass and put 4 ounces of water in it and then begin to add sand to the glass until the water runs out of the glass or you have a layer of dry sand on top you will find depending on how dry the sand was an inch of dry sand at the top of the glass. You can get the water out of the sand by exposing it to the sun and the water will evaporate or you can put the sand under enough pressure and you can retreive a lot of the water.
So explain to me how the water could not be in the Earth if the Earth was half the size it is now at one time in the past as presented by scientist. Then bombarded by asteroids adding solid material and comets adding water.
Trixie writes:
If it came out of the fountains of the deep under great pressure, how is it going to get back into them in the short time span available?
I don't remember mentioning the water getting back into the fountains of the deep. It would have to go somewhere.
First I got to get the water in the acquifers under the oceans to be available to the fountains of the deep. Which I have presented the mechanism to accomplish that job.
Now since There is enough water in the mantle to fill the oceans 7 to 10 times it had to get there somehow. Since water gets into the mantle by subduction all that would be required is a couple of plates diving under other plates on the other side of the Earth from where my land mass was and the water entering the mantle, could have been sufficient to remove the flood waters. Then again some of it could have frozen at the poles.
Trixie writes:
ICANT writes:
I read of many times that Earth has been impacted by large asteroids that sent material into the air and even into the stratosphere. This material would have fallen back to Earth thus covering the plants and animals where it fell. Some of these impacts killed almost all life forms on Earth. Some darkened the sun for years according to what has been put forward.
That is the reason I said that any water that was on Earth when it was created would be in the same area of the oil.
In other words in my mind the Earth was a lot smaller at one time that it is now. Plants and animals grew as swarms on the ground and in the water and especially the swampy areas. Then material was added that covered those life forms. Then plants and animals grew as swarms and more material was added until we have what we have today.
Referring to that I said
I'm not sure if you're suggesting that the size of the earth grew because of constant sedimentation or because of asteroid impacts.
Nothing in what you wrote had anything to do with accretion forming the planet. We're way beyond that - in the scenario you described you were talking about how plants may have been covered and you stated the earth was alot smaller. So I'll ask you again. Are you saying the earth grew due to asteroid impacts or due to plant material being deposited or a bit of both?
And you don't think those large asteroids added any mass to the Earth.
I mentioned the large asteroids because they are well known but there was a bombardment of smaller asteroids and comets for a very long time adding to the mass of the Earth according to the theory of accretion.
But if you are still confused:
The Earth was smaller at one time than it is now.
Material was added including water to the mass that was there.
There was massive amounts of life forms required to exist to be covered in these bombarments in order for the material to exist that we get our oil, gas and coal from.
Now if you got a mechanism to get the 1.372e+18 tons of material required to produce the oil in the ground along with the water that is there with it and in the acquifiers please present it.
Remember this amount of material only covers the gasoline. It excludes natural gas, other oil products and coal.
Trixie writes:
ICANT writes:
In Genesis 1:1 when the Heavens and the Earth was created there was no seas. There was only a river that forked into 4 rivers that went out to water the land.
You didn't just say that What happened to your unshakable belief that all the seas were gathered into one place???
Yes I did say that, because it is what the Bible text says.
My faith is not shaken.
In Genesis 1:2 all land mass was covered with water.
In Genesis 1:9 dry land appeared when the water was gathered into one place. This was accomplished probably by an uplifting of the land mass. If God took Moses back in time an allowed him to observe what happened Moses would not have realized the land lifted but that the water moved to one place as that is what he would have seen.
In Genesis 1:1 the heavens and the Earth was created in the beginning and they were perfect.
At that time according to the history of the light period the heavens and trhe Earth was created there was 1 river that came out of the ground and divided into 4 rivers and watered the garden. Genesis 2:10
I have covered this is a past thread, so I will only mention it here and not leave the topic too far.
Trixie writes:
Nothing in what you wrote had anything to do with accretion forming the planet. We're way beyond that - in the scenario you described you were talking about how plants may have been covered and you stated the earth was alot smaller. So I'll ask you again. Are you saying the earth grew due to asteroid impacts or due to plant material being deposited or a bit of both?
The plant and animal material would not have added much volume to the Earth. Water and the materials the Earth is made of would have added the mass. As that mass increased the plant and animal materials would have decreased as it was compacted to the point it became gas and oil.
How did that material get there if not the way I describe it?
If the Earth was fully formed before any plant and animal life existed how would you get the volume of material to the depth in the Earth it is in, considering the pressure the oil is under?
How would you get the water that is with the oil and in the acquifer under miles of Earth material under the pressure it is under at that depth?
Give me a logical way for the materials and water to get there.
Trixie writes:
Note the words I've put in bold. There is an absolute requirement for land elevation. If your model only works with no land elevations, I suggest you change your model rather than making claims about the text which can only be described as wrong, unless of course you're going to argue that the definitions of hill and mountain were different when the story was written down.
There would have to be elevation to have ההרים which is translated hills.
The text does not say how high those hills were. But you say they were mountains. Well actually that was added by the translators as they translated ההרים as mountains as well as hills.
But since the land mass had not been divided at the time of the flood from what it was in Genesis 1:10 how high could those hills be?
That is the reason I said I would need more information such as the elevation of the land to know how much water was needed to cover the Earth at the time of the flood.
I could make an assumption and I would probably have a 99.9999999999infinity% chance to be wrong.
Due to the fact I would be wrong I won't make an assumption.
If I did not make my position clear ask for what you need.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Trixie, posted 12-22-2011 5:05 PM Trixie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Trixie, posted 12-23-2011 7:02 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 104 of 432 (645139)
12-23-2011 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Theodoric
12-22-2011 5:00 PM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi Theodoric,
Theodoric writes:
Not really the same thing is it?
A seep is a seep regardless of the cause.
A 20' well that produces oil is a 20' well regardless of the way the oil got there to be pumped out.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Theodoric, posted 12-22-2011 5:00 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 106 of 432 (645144)
12-23-2011 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by edge
12-23-2011 12:05 PM


Re: Water
Hi edge,
edge writes:
Apparently, your studies should continue.
They will until the day I die and then I will learn what it is to die.
edge writes:
I suggest a college level class or two if you really want to know.
At 72 it is a little late for that. I just need access to real information without having to pay a arm and leg to gain access.
edge writes:
I'm not sure how that is possible. Perhaps you mean you are just 'older'?
I believe the universe has always existed in some form in eternity which has a small portion marked off as time for our benefit as described by God in Genesis 1:5-19.
edge writes:
Yes, but it is not in an accesible form.
Only the water that is below the point in the mantle that is over 815C. From there up it is accesible to the surface.
edge writes:
Probably by accretion. That really doesn't bother me since it is not free water.
You know the water is not accesible because ______________.
Science says there is enough water in the mantle to fill our oceans 7 to 10 times.
From what I understand they include everything but the crust as the place that water exists. Water can exist in a form accesible to the surface anywhere it exists above 815C.
edge writes:
Most of the free water is under hydrostatic load. Virtually all of the bound water is lithostatic since it is in the mantle.
What does lithostatic pressure have to do with the water in the mantle being stored in hydrous minerals?
Why would the water that is above the part of the mantel that reaches 815C be stored in hydrous minerals?
Water would be superheated steam at that temperature.
Diamonds are said to be formed at 90 miles below the surface where the temperature is around 1,050 degrees Celsius.
So all the water above 25 miles from the surface should be available to the surface.
So why wouldn't there be a few ocean fulls of water in that 25 mile area that would be available to be released into the ocean?
edge writes:
Realistically, the pressure on a liquid must be somewhere in between, unless it is artificiall overpressured. Your wellhead pressure 0f 10,000psi is not all that huge in geologic terms, and in a subsiding basin, where sediments are being compacted by the sedimentary load, this is not outlandish nor unexpected.
I was being conservative using 10,000 psi the well I was referring to has 22,000 psi on a 36" pipe head.
Now all that water that is in the mantle that is less than 815C that is heated causes upward pressure due to expansion. All water above 4 degrees Celsius is expanding and the higher the degree the more expanded the water becomes.
If a superheated boiler was to blow its door off it would destroy everything in its path for quite a distance.
edge writes:
No. There is no such thing as 'fountains of the deep' in the sense you use it.
I am looking at the fountains of the deep as any opening in the crust of the Earth that water that is in the crust and lithosphere could escape or be forced into the ocean by the pressure it is under.
edge writes:
First, there is little if any free water in the mantle.
You base that upon what facts?
OR assumption?
edge writes:
Second, it is not connected by a plumbing system to get it to the 'fountains'.
The folks that drill the oil wells believe the acquifer system exists under the ocean in the lithosphere and crust. They drill into water that causes them problems.
edge writes:
Third, there is no mechanism for it to go back into the mantle.
Correction there is no way for it to go back into the crust or lithosphere as the pressure would be too much to overcome without and injection method and the places that the water escaped from in the first place would have to be closed.
But there is a mechanism to get the water into the mantle. It is called subduction.
edge writes:
In fact, I'm guessing that such a process as this, if there were one, might freeze plate tectonics.
Why would water being released from the upper lithosphere have any effect on plate tectonics?
The bottom of the lithosphere is what moves over the asthenosphere and all the water released would be above where the lithosphere slides through the asthenosphere. (through is probably a bad word to use as the depth of the continental roots go very deep in some places).
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by edge, posted 12-23-2011 12:05 PM edge has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 107 of 432 (645145)
12-23-2011 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by edge
12-23-2011 5:31 PM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi edge,
edge writes:
water crystals in the core of the earth
I should have said the water was stored in hydrous minerals in the mantle, so plese excuse my laziness.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by edge, posted 12-23-2011 5:31 PM edge has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 109 of 432 (645162)
12-23-2011 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Trixie
12-23-2011 7:02 PM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi Trixie,
Trixie writes:
If this lot comes out in one go as the fountains of the deep have you any idea how much heat would be transferred to the surface where Noah and his menagerie are waiting? In all probability they'd be broiled!
After x amount of water is ejected the pressure would equalize and no more flow would occur. There would be a lot of water above the steam which would cool as it came towards the surface and when it reached the water at the bottom of the ocean the water would cool quickly.
Water at 1,000 m is 4C and drops to - 4C at 3,000 meters.
Water at 4,000 m is -5C.
Water temperature begins to rise below 4,000 m due to heat from adiabatic heating.
Water at 6,000 m is in the range of 1C to 2.5C.
Water exiting from thermal hydrothermal vents may reach as high as 464C at exit.
Hydrothermal vent water would be much hotter than the water from the lithosphere that would be forced to the surface.
So I don't see the problem you do.
Trixie writes:
Sorry, that's irrelevant nonsense.
You are the one that is becoming irrelevant.
We were talking about how to cover the water with material dropped on the Earth.
I gave you an experiment that proves it can be done and you say it is nonsense.
If that is the best rebuttal you have why am I wasting my time answering your posts?
Trixie writes:
Yes, but the mechanisms you have proposed preclude its availability to burst forth and cause a flood.
Can a well driller go out and drill a well and get water? Yes is my answer.
Can a oil well driller drill a well and get water? Yes is my answer.
Is there contintental crust on the bottom of the Atlantic ocean? Yes is my answer.
How did it get there? It got there because at one time it was not covered with water.
That would mean it would have a aquifer as the oil well drilling engineer said. So the water is still there when the land gets covered with water.
The water is there.
The water is under great pressure.
If released the water will exit into the ocean.
If you don't think there is water there tell me what that stuff is that comes out of hydrothermal vents?
Trixie writes:
"hill"
Is an English word that was used as the definition of a Hebrew word that the archaic meaning is summit.
I said in the beginning there was at least 1 inch of elevation as there was dry land. I will stick with that conclusion.
As far as the elevation of any other height the original text does not give any.
To get one I would have to make an assumption which I refuse to do.
Trixie writes:
I'd appreciate some input from geologists, physicists etc to calculate the effect of millions of cubic kilometres of superheated steam belching into the atmosphere would have on global temperatures.
So now you are building a strawman.
There would be no superheated steam belching into the atmosphere. It would not even reach the floor of the ocean as it would push the water that was above it upward as it cooled on its journey.
When it reaches the -5C temperature water it will cool rather quickly.
Oil at 20,000 feet below the sea-bed will boil an egg. At 30,000 feet it is 400F and begins to boil off gas.
The water should not be too different from the oil.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Trixie, posted 12-23-2011 7:02 PM Trixie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Coyote, posted 12-23-2011 10:12 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 113 by Trixie, posted 12-24-2011 6:00 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 114 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-24-2011 11:02 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 119 by edge, posted 12-24-2011 11:03 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 120 of 432 (645310)
12-25-2011 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by edge
12-24-2011 11:03 PM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi edge,
edge writes:
Also, wrong is your answer. If there is continental crust at the bottom of the oceans it is an exceedingly small piece.
You give me too much credit for my imagination. I don't make this stuff up. I read it where scientest with Phd's have said there is continental crust underwater in the Atlantic and Indian ocean.
And no they are not talking about a little bit. They talk about a lot.
Question: I live in central Florida we are at 49 feet above sea level. If the water in the oceans was to rise 100 feet would land mass that is Florida cease to be continental crust just because it was under water at that time?
Science tells me it was covered at one time with water.
edge writes:
Recycled seawater. This has been prety well established. Really, it is little different from terrestrial springs which are ultimately rainwater.
When did sea water cease to be water?
The process of evaporation when changing the saltwater to unsalted water by superheating, is called distillation.
edge writes:
You are too wrong on too many points here, IC. I think from this point is is clear that you are wasting our time with stubborn, uneducated assertions.
Then produce the evidence that proves I am wrong.
As far as wasting your time, it is impossible for me to waste your time. All I can waste is my time.
You may feel you are wasting your time replying to my posts but I am not holding a gun to your head making you post an answer to my posts.
Then on the other hand you could quit wasting your time answering my post with your assertions and post information with references that proves what I say is wrong.
I will agree with you that if you are only going to type the words "You are too wrong on too many points here, IC."
Then not state the specific point's where I am wrong and then present the refuting information along with references you are wasting your time. You are not educating me or anyone who reads your posts.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by edge, posted 12-24-2011 11:03 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by edge, posted 12-25-2011 9:55 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 124 by Percy, posted 12-26-2011 8:47 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 121 of 432 (645311)
12-25-2011 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Dr Adequate
12-24-2011 11:02 AM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi Dr,
Dr Adequate writes:
Surely you need more than 1 inch of water to ... y'know ... drown people? As I understand Genesis, God did not merely punish the wicked by giving them damp feet.
Why should I reply to your strawman?
I never said 1 inch of water. I did say at least 1 inch evevation as there was dry land protuding out of the water.
Using the Holy cubit I would need 39 feet and 1 inch of water to cover that land mass that was protruding 1 inch out of the water.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-24-2011 11:02 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Trixie, posted 12-26-2011 6:22 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 127 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-26-2011 12:21 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 130 of 432 (645370)
12-26-2011 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Coyote
12-23-2011 10:12 PM


Re: Parbroiled?
Hi Coyote,
Coyote writes:
I haven't been paying much attention to this thread
And it shows.
Coyote writes:
And did I see somewhere here that the volume of water needed for the flood was some seven times that on the surface?
I did a search and your post is the only one where, "seven times that on the surface" appears.
Coyote writes:
And that you are proposing that this water comes from under the earth as superheated steam?
Well no, I have proposed that the water in the mantle under 100 C is hot water. Water in the mantle between 100 C and 176.6666666666 C is steam. Water in the mantle between 176.6666666666 C and 815 C would be superheated steam.
Steam rises and as it does so it will cool until it condenses into water and that water as it rises will cool.
So I am not proposing that superheated steam will be released into the ocean.
Coyote writes:
Could you supply some numbers for the equivalent of 7x earth's surface water being condensed from superheated steam,
Why would I need too as I have made no such proposal?
Coyote writes:
But you proposed this, so you must have some figures you can share with us.
Well no I did not make such a proposal.
You did propose such a strawman and demand that I explain your strawman.
Its your strawman if you want it explained you will have to do it yourself.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Coyote, posted 12-23-2011 10:12 PM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Trixie, posted 12-26-2011 6:29 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 134 by JonF, posted 12-26-2011 7:17 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 131 of 432 (645376)
12-26-2011 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Dr Adequate
12-26-2011 12:21 PM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi Dr,
Dr Adequate writes:
Well, 39 feet to cover the hills, and 39 feet 1 inch to cover the valleys between them.
No.
It would require 39 feet and 1 inch to cover the dry land with 39 feet of water.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-26-2011 12:21 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-26-2011 11:50 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 136 of 432 (645407)
12-26-2011 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by edge
12-25-2011 9:55 PM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi edge,
edge writes:
Where? And no, you did not say 'underwater'. You said under the bottom of the ocean.
Everywhere that wellbores have produced samples of material that shows it has been exposed to weathering.
Where did I say, "under the bottom of the ocean"?
I did a search and can't find where I made that statement.
edge writes:
It would not be the 'bottom of the ocean'.
Are you suggesting that the Mariana trench is the only place that can be called the bottom of the ocean?
edge writes:
It would not be the 'bottom of the ocean'.
It sure wouldn't be dry land. It would be covered with water, which would make it sea-bottom.
edge writes:
How many years ago?
It is like the Bible it does not give a date. It just testifies that it was.
edge writes:
When the water you are talking about, the FOD, was not seawater in the first place. You are saying it was primitive water, locked up in the mantle.
Yes I said it was water that was trapped but I don't remember mentioning the mantle.
I thought I said the water came down in comets and then was mixed and covered with material from asteroids hitting the Earth and making it larger over time.
There had to be 1.372e+18 tons of lifeform materials buried to produce the gas that is under the surface of the Earth along with enough to produce the natural gas and coal.
If I understand correctly those materials had to be covered before they decomposed in order to produce the oil, natural gas, and coal.
Now as to whether salt water that later covered the land migrated into the water beneath as pressure was applied by the weight of the water I do not know. But I think a good guess would be that it did.
edge writes:
I will consider my job done.
What job unless you want to present the evidence that you have alluded too. Since you choose not to do that you only have an agenda.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by edge, posted 12-25-2011 9:55 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Coragyps, posted 12-26-2011 9:57 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 139 by edge, posted 12-26-2011 10:05 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 137 of 432 (645416)
12-26-2011 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Percy
12-26-2011 8:47 AM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi Percy,
Percy writes:
What does continental crust at the bottom of the ocean have to do with where the water came from before the flood and where it went after?
Everything.
Continental crust (material that has been weathered) had to be exposed to the sunlight and weathering conditions in the past. For that to happen it had to be above water. Thus the Earth was smaller at one time than it is now.
The alternative would be that there is no such thing as plate tectonics and the water in the ocean just has been at different levels at times in the past.
My crazy thinking is that the Earth was much smaller when created in Genesis 1:1. In the course of existence there was much vegetation and animal life on earth and then there was a massive number of asteroids and comets that hit part of the Earth which ceased.
Then in the course of existence plant and animal life was restored to that portion of the Earth and then another part of the Earth received the asteroids and comets covering every living thing in a particular area. This continued until the Earth was completed.
So along with the material for the oil, natural gas, and coal there was
much water buried.
Then the water was added to cover all land as is found in Genesis 1:2.
I have asked several times for someone to present a mechanism for the materials required to produce the oil, natural gas, and coal that is in the Earth to be able to get to where it is at, with no response.
There is oil and natural gas at 30,000 feet below the sea-bed in the gulf of Mexico as well as water.
How did it get there?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Percy, posted 12-26-2011 8:47 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Coragyps, posted 12-26-2011 10:20 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 141 by edge, posted 12-26-2011 10:25 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 142 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-26-2011 11:45 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 144 by Percy, posted 12-27-2011 7:19 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 149 of 432 (645538)
12-27-2011 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Percy
12-27-2011 7:19 AM


Re: Miles of rock
Hi Percy,
Percy writes:
Continental crust is not seabed material that has been exposed to the elements.
Much seabed may have never been exposed to weathering as continental crust. But any material that is found on or under the top layers of seabed that has been weathered had to have existed above sea level.
Percy writes:
It forms at subduction zones where the lighter portions of seafloor material are trimmed off and remain above instead of subducting down into the mantle.
According to the so called plate tectonics theory when two oceanic plates collide the younger will ride over the older.
When a continental plate collides with a oceanic plate the oceanic plate will dive under the continental plate.
When two continental plates collide it makes a mess as neither dive and mountains are created.
If that is wrong please correct me.
Percy writes:
Continental crust is significantly less dense than oceanic crust and is unlikely to exist on the seafloor to any significant extent.
But if it does something is wrong with what has been presented as fact.
Percy writes:
Whoever you were asking is to be congratulated for staying on topic. Why don't you ask your question in a thread where it would be on topic?
But it is on topic as that material got under miles of solid material the same way and time the water for the flood got there.
Percy writes:
As near as I can gather, your model is that the Earth used to be much smaller. It was bombarded over long periods of time by asteroids and comets, and much water, vegetation and living creatures became deeply buried, providing the source for deeply buried oil and water and fossils. The water emerged during the flood, then returned to its burial points after the flood.
You were doing great until you got to the disposal of the flood waters. I have not really covered that yet.
Enough water had to receed so that the ark rested on dry land and that there was a sizable piece of dry land available for animals and humans. But all land mass did not have to be exposed at the moment Noah disembarked from the ark.
There are maps of a flat earth land mass sourounded by water. The only way people would have thought that, was because they could go all around the land mass at the edge of the water.
The Bible says the land mass was divided in the days of Peleg. He lived only 239 years. So the maximum time for the division of the land was 239 years less the amount of time he lived before the people were scattred over the face of the dry land.
I think it was instaneous movement. But I am told that would create a lot of heat.
At the present plate tectonics theory teaches the water in the bottom of the lithosphere and in the top of the asthenosphere cools the movement of the plates.
Could somebody explain to me how the water that is so hot that it has become one in hydrous minerals has much cooling to provide?
One of my stupid questions.
If the contintents were separated instantly wouldn't a lot of water be superheated past the point of being steam becoming hydrous minerals as it became a part of the asthenosphere.?
Thus the water would disappear into the mantle, leaving a lot of dry land in the process.
Water deep in the Earth. The Kola Superdeep Borehole scientist was suprised at the amount of water that was found all the way down to 9656 m deep during their drilling. They had to stop at 12,262 m as the temperature reached 180 C.
Here is a PPP the first one on the list that discusses the Caribbean plate. I will get some more information for you later as I have some things I have to take care of now.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Percy, posted 12-27-2011 7:19 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by edge, posted 12-27-2011 8:25 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 152 by Percy, posted 12-28-2011 7:15 AM ICANT has replied

  
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