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Author Topic:   Quick Questions, Short Answers - No Debate
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 226 of 653 (644372)
12-17-2011 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by hooah212002
12-17-2011 10:07 AM


Re: Polemic
It could be based on the method, the content, on whether or not someone used vulgarity or character assassination... may ways.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by hooah212002, posted 12-17-2011 10:07 AM hooah212002 has replied

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 227 of 653 (644375)
12-17-2011 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 226 by jar
12-17-2011 10:11 AM


Re: Polemic
Ahh, ok. I get it now. I found a different definition that helps at Wiktionary
1. A person who writes in support of one opinion, doctrine, or system, in opposition to another; one skilled in polemics; a controversialist; a disputant.
2. An argument or controversy.
3.A strong verbal or written attack on someone or something.
So it is not merely a reference for someone defending themselves, but someone who is in opposition to a particular "thing".
Thanks jar.

Put the FSM back in Chrifsmas

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 228 of 653 (645630)
12-28-2011 3:06 PM


How hard would it be to impliment a function where I could see just the messages of mine that were Cheer/Jeer'd?
I'll notice my rating change and then wonder what posts impacted that... It'd be nice if I could sort my posts by rated/unrated.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 231 by Admin, posted 12-29-2011 8:33 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 229 of 653 (645635)
12-28-2011 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by New Cat's Eye
12-28-2011 3:06 PM


Unless I'm mistaken, your ranking depends on the rankings of other people, so that your rating might go up as a consequence of me being jeered. Also, I think Percy's formula only takes into account the last n days or posts or something, so your rating might go down as a result of one of your much-admired posts becoming superannuated. So while Percy might be able to implement the feature you describe quite easily, it would not (assuming I'm right) really tell you what you want to know.

This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 230 of 653 (645638)
12-28-2011 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Dr Adequate
12-28-2011 3:44 PM


Unless I'm mistaken, your ranking depends on the rankings of other people, so that your rating might go up as a consequence of me being jeered
Really? I never heard that part.
Also, I think Percy's formula only takes into account the last n days or posts or something, so your rating might go down as a result of one of your much-admired posts becoming superannuated.
I heard that. Wasn't there also talk about it being an account of the last n posts? That would make sense that, as I'm posting quite a bit, I notice changes in my rating because different posts are being counted now... or it could just be that it changed today because the last day on the list fell off.
So while Percy might be able to implement the feature you describe quite easily, it would not (assuming I'm right) really tell you what you want to know.
Even if it doesn't tell me much about the rating, itself, I'd still like to be able to better tell which posts were cheer/jeer'd or not. I'd like to see a list of just the posts that were rated and how they did.

This message is a reply to:
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Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 231 of 653 (645724)
12-29-2011 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 228 by New Cat's Eye
12-28-2011 3:06 PM


Member Ratings Explained
It didn't receive much attention at the time, but a few months ago the member rating formula was greatly simplified after some discussions with Nwr. It works like this:
  • Only messages from the last 90 days are used to calculate member ratings.
  • All cheers and jeers for a member are summed. A cheer is plus one, a jeer is minus one.
  • The sum of all cheers and jeers is divided over the member's total number of messages for the past 90 days, giving his raw rating.
  • The raw ratings across all members are normalized into the range 1 to 10, with 1 lowest and 10 highest. The results are the ratings you see.
Because the total number of messages is in the denominator, the new scheme penalizes those who post lots of messages that receive no votes but whose raw rating is positive. It of course benefits those whose raw rating is negative, but those with low ratings tend to post messages that receive some voting attention.
When I made the rating change Crash commented that he was surprised that my Percy rating isn't pegged at 10, so I made a little code change that only he can see, but he hasn't noticed yet.
The ability to view your messages that have received votes will be implemented at the same time as the automated post of the month system. It's high on my list of things to do, but I'm currently working on converting over to a templating system.
The templating system will allow webmaster customizations and multi-language capability (not including message content, of course). I'll be needing volunteer translators soon, I've already got Spanish covered. It's a small amount of translation work, maybe 2000 words total. Example phrase: "Click to view first unread message."

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 232 of 653 (645734)
12-29-2011 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 231 by Admin
12-29-2011 8:33 AM


Re: Member Ratings Explained
Hi Percy,
It works like this:
  • Only messages from the last 90 days are used to calculate member ratings.
  • All cheers and jeers for a member are summed. A cheer is plus one, a jeer is minus one.
  • The sum of all cheers and jeers is divided over the member's total number of messages for the past 90 days, giving his raw rating.
  • The raw ratings across all members are normalized into the range 1 to 10, with 1 lowest and 10 highest. The results are the ratings you see.
It is a popularity rating rather than a content rating.
I would think that the default rating would be in the middle, average ... 5? Someone who posts little and says nothing controversial should be a 5? It seems to me that the distribution is skewed.
The ability to view your messages that have received votes will be implemented at the same time as the automated post of the month system.
Although popular does not necessarily mean good quality.
A post like "Rick Perry is a doofus" could be highly popular, but would hardly qualify for post of the month in my opinion.
Enjoy
Edited by Zen Deist, : example

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 233 of 653 (645742)
12-29-2011 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 231 by Admin
12-29-2011 8:33 AM


Re: Member Ratings Explained
The ability to view your messages that have received votes will be implemented at the same time as the automated post of the month system. It's high on my list of things to do, but I'm currently working on converting over to a templating system.
Awesome. Thanks for the explanation too.
I though of another thing:
When you click on a members name and get to their list of posts, it be cool if you could sort those by the column headers: Topic / Forum. Also, if there was a date column you could sort by too.
Sometimes I'll remember something I or somebody else was typing about and want to go find the post and that would help a whole lot.
ABE:
Sorting the All Topics page by Forum might be nice too.
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by Admin, posted 12-29-2011 8:33 AM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by Admin, posted 12-30-2011 7:57 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 234 of 653 (645799)
12-30-2011 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 233 by New Cat's Eye
12-29-2011 10:40 AM


Re: Member Ratings Explained
Catholic Scientist writes:
When you click on a members name and get to their list of posts, it be cool if you could sort those by the column headers: Topic / Forum. Also, if there was a date column you could sort by too.
I would like this too, and it is on my todo list.
About just the last part, it's already sorted by the date/time of the member's last message in the thread - do you mean the date/time when the thread was started?

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-29-2011 10:40 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 235 of 653 (645813)
12-30-2011 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by Admin
12-30-2011 7:57 AM


Re: Member Ratings Explained
Since you are taking requests...
When I click on my own rating, I'd like to have it so that the last ten posts of anyone who has jeered me automatically get a jeer. In fact, I don't want to have to even do the click, and you needn't provide the feature for the benefit of anyone but me.
On second thought, I think I can find [member name deleted]'s posts without any such aid. Don't bother writing any code.
Now that my motives are completely suspect, I wanted to ask you if you could use any programming help. I program primarily in c/c++/, java, and javascript, and have only minimal experience with php.

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 236 of 653 (645818)
12-30-2011 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by Admin
12-30-2011 7:57 AM


Re: Member Ratings Explained
About just the last part, it's already sorted by the date/time of the member's last message in the thread - do you mean the date/time when the thread was started?
No, I was thinking message date...
Since its just the member's last messages in the thread, the sorting wouldn't be any different
A list of all of a member's messages might get a little long, no?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Admin, posted 12-30-2011 7:57 AM Admin has seen this message but not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 237 of 653 (645869)
12-30-2011 6:25 PM


Since we are talking about the rating system...
Much to his chagrin, I'm sure, Artemis actually made a valid point in Message 106 that I hadn't previously thought of and hasn't been mentioned about the current rating system allowing lurkers to participate.
Good point, fuck stick.
Edited by hooah212002, : I'm only kidding. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 238 of 653 (645894)
12-31-2011 8:53 AM


Ratings Still Suck
I still think that the ratings system, whilst technically very good, is inappropriate for this forum.
Creationist participants here are labouring under enough discouragement already without their having to be rated a humiliating 1.3 or something. After all, they're under enough pressure just being wrong about everything. I know that if I was on a board where every creationist had a rating from 7 - 10 whilst every evolutionist languished on a 1 - 3 rating I would feel chagrined and unwelcome. We don't need to make creationist participants feel unwelcome. Without them, there would be no purpose to this board. We already have a paucity of creo members at the moment, no need to make it worse.
I know that some people like the ratings system and I know that it's part of Percy's programming goals, but I just can't help but think that it is counter to the goal of promoting understanding through discussion.
Mutate and Survive

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 239 of 653 (645896)
12-31-2011 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by Granny Magda
12-31-2011 8:53 AM


Re: Ratings Still Suck
Creationist participants here are labouring under enough discouragement already without their having to be rated a humiliating 1.3 or something.
Nobody is taking the ratings seriously, as best I can tell. But the cheers/jeers are sometimes entertaining.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 240 of 653 (645898)
12-31-2011 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by Granny Magda
12-31-2011 8:53 AM


Re: Ratings Still Suck
Granny Magda writes:
I know that some people like the ratings system and I know that it's part of Percy's programming goals, but I just can't help but think that it is counter to the goal of promoting understanding through discussion.
The way I see it, at any venue like EvC Forum there are multiple influences pulling people in different directions, and complicating matters, no one influence affects everyone the same way. For example, what some see as a discouraging factor others might see as motivational.
In other words, it's not simple. You have a good point, but there are also good counter arguments.
Perhaps your best argument is that the only reason EvC Forum has a rating system is because I think it is a necessary feature for a discussion board product. Can't argue with you there.
Anyway, on my todo list is the ability for individuals to enable/disable the rating system for themselves personally, assuming the webmaster has turned the rating system on. I'm not sure at this point what disabling the system for oneself personally would mean. Would it mean that they couldn't see any rating-related information? Or would it mean not only that, but also that other people couldn't rate their messages or see their member rating?

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
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