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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
I don't think it is possible to determine which culture is better. Wouldn't that simply be determined by which society provides more freedom and liberties to it's citizens? - Oni
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Only if that is where YOU place the highest value.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4042 Joined: Member Rating: 7.7 |
Wouldn't that simply be determined by which society provides more freedom and liberties to it's citizens? Are "freedoms and liberties" the ultimate goal of a society? Or are they themselves means to other ends? How do you measure them for comparison? By the simple standard of "freedoms and liberties," the best culture would be a total anarchy like parts of Somalia where there are no laws or authorities to restrict freedom and liberty. That doesn't sound quite right to me.The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Only if that is where YOU place the highest value. It is the highest. Anything else falls bellow that. - Oni
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Says YOU.
We are discussing things that are "best" when in fact that has little or no meaning. Best depends totally on the opinion of the person making the judgement.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Are "freedoms and liberties" the ultimate goal of a society I would think so.
Or are they themselves means to other ends? Yes. To better living.
How do you measure them for comparison? I don't get the question.
By the simple standard of "freedoms and liberties," the best culture would be a total anarchy like parts of Somalia where there are no laws or authorities to restrict freedom and liberty. That doesn't sound quite right to me Well of course not because that negates having actual freedom and liberties protected by laws. Anarchy is the antithesis of that. It's lawlessness, therefore no laws will be in effect to protect your rights, freedoms and liberties. Like in Iran. - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Says YOU. Well yeah, I'm the one typing. But "better" can be objetively determined.
Best depends totally on the opinion of the person making the judgement. Well then we're talking about individual "bests" and not cultural bests or what's best for a society. A society is not based on individual opinion but on a collective, objective, consensus. - Oni
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Exactly, and we are talking about Nation States and each decides on what is best for their culture and society.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Best depends totally on the opinion of the person making the judgement. ...and from an objective stand point, one can be determined to be better than the other. - Oni
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4042 Joined: Member Rating: 7.7 |
Well of course not because that negates having actual freedom and liberties protected by laws. Anarchy is the antithesis of that. It's lawlessness, therefore no laws will be in effect to protect your rights, freedoms and liberties. No, Onifre. Laws can never, ever ensure more freedom than you have without them. Laws are, by their nature, restrictions. Laws that "protect" freedoms only restrict the possible actions of government, which is irrelevant in an anarchy. Laws against theft eliminate my liberty to take possession of what you own. Laws against assault restrict my freedom to punch you in the face.
Yes. To better living. How do you measure better vs. worse living? How do freedoms and liberties automatically translate to better living?The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Laws can never, ever ensure more freedom than you have without them Hear that former slaves? Laws can never, ever ensure more freedom than you have without them. We're talking about liberty as opposed to slavery. Freedom as in free, rather than confined. The liberty to determine things for yourself rather than being restricted. And laws that protect that DO ensure you'll have more freedom than without that.
Laws against theft eliminate my liberty to take possession of what you own. Laws against assault restrict my freedom to punch you in the face. Do you really have the liberty to possess what I own? Do you really have the freedom to punch me in the face?
How do you measure better vs. worse living? Objectively? As an example, I'd say poverty levels, nutritional levels, access to medicine, free of diseases, human rights, to start with. A place or culture or society that has slaves, people are starving and are full of diseases is worse than a place without that or with a very low percentage of that.
How do freedoms and liberties automatically translate to better living? I'd say not being a slave is better living. - Oni
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yes, in fact depending on your objective stand point either can be determined to be better than the other.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Yes, in fact depending on your objective stand point either can be determined to be better than the other.
Not YOUR objective stand point, AN objective stand point. In other words, not subjectively better but objectively better. Saying: "YOUR objective stand point" is a SUBJECTIVE stand point even though you used the word "objective." Objectively some sultures are better than others. How? Like I pointed out to Rhavin, a society that has slaves, disease, no medicine and a high percentage of starvation is worse than a society that doesn't. Why? Because societies free of those things promote a better living condition and longer life spans for human beings. So there is a degree of better and worse. There is a guage to determine what promotes a better living condition for humans. - Oni Edited by onifre, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
It is certainly possible to make up stuff, but then no one else here is making up such stuff.
Look at the example you made up. Disease, starvation and no medicine are not cultural criteria. Slavery may or may not be relevant, that is up to them. If you think something is better then you have every right to try to persuade the other nation of your position.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Look at the example you made up. Disease, starvation and no medicine are not cultural criteria. Cultures in which these things are prevelant... I said nothing about it being a criteria for a culture.
Slavery may or may not be relevant, that is up to them. It is relevant. You know it is. And you're being evasive.
If you think something is better then you have every right to try to persuade the other nation of your position. Ok? What's the point to that comment? - Oni
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