Chat/Comment thread

So violence or force is never acceptable?

Freedom is a finite quality. Just laws, that apply to everyone, work to ensure that it is equally distributed.Equality and maximum personal freedom are at the very core of Western society. They are not at the very core of some other societies. You know it when you see it. You know it subjectively. It is certain that all the things that make your life better will not necessarily make my life better. I think that there are some things that will necessarily make everyone's life better. Maximum personal freedom that is equally distributed is one of them. Who in the world wishes that they had less freedom than someone else? In the same way that eating food translates into not being hungry. It is the way of things. We have evolved to feel happier when we are free. It probably has something to do with survival.________My contention is that those of us who believe in maximum personal freedom and equality are obligated to try and make it true for everyone.

Why is it the way of the world? Does our evolutionary history not show us that it is the best way?

quote:

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TOKYO, Japan -- A huge bluefin tuna fetched a record 56.49 million yen ($736,000 or $1,241 per pound) at the year's first auction at Tokyo's Tsukiji fish market

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SourceAnyone want to start a fish farm? If this fish was 25 yrs old thats $29k/yr/fish. Can you grow tuna in a tank?

No it doesn't. It depends on who is able to do the imposing.

My point is, why are the most powerful nations the most powerful nations? It is because they have succeded. Should we persue a model that leads to less success?

It has everything to do with it. You are not more powerful if you are not better. The ability to maintain that power over a period of time is an excellent measure of what is better or best.

You are argueing against the success of natural selection. But it is not all dominance. The ability to cooperate is major factor.

I am making the assumption that survival is better than not surviving.But anyway. I dont think Iran should be allowed to have nuclear weapons.

I am not advocating war. I am saying Iran should not be allowed to have nuclear weapons or be allowed to impede traffic in the Strait of Hormuz. If there is a way to do that without killing some people I am all for it. If there is no way to do that without the killing I am still for it.

No. It is kill if you have to and it is not an attitude so much as it is a reality.Iran shouldn't have nuclear weapons because they will likely use them or give them to someone who will. It will not make the world or Iran a safer place.

Well they may not use them. I have been finding it hard to fathom that magnitude of stupidity and blind self destruction. They would likely just polish their knobs and parade them around. Use them as a threat and a bargaining tool.On the other hand, there has been some talk of bringing their Islamic Revolution to the rest of the world and they had expressed a mild interest in a world that did not contain the state of Israel. This is all probably just rhetoric but if it is not then I can see how they might think that nukes could make it all happen. They have a theocratic government that supports terrorism as a legitimate tool of the state. A government that sent children into the battlefield to 'look' for mines. They have no regard for opposing beliefs. They support none of the fundamental human rights that you cherish and enjoy. They are isolated in the global community.The US, Russia, UK, France, China, India, Pakistan, Israel and N. Korea have nukes. Do you really believe that Iran should be allowed to have them just because it is a fair and non-hypocritical position?

All of the diplomatic and economic tools are being used. I guess it comes down to your level of resolve. If you actually believe that we should be rid of them then you cannot allow their proliferation.The misery of war will be a lot less before they have them. Also it will mostly be their misery instead or ours. Which, I would say, actually is better than the alternative.There is no road to peace. Peace is the road. I can see the wisdom in that but how do we get there from here?