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Author Topic:   That boat don't float
Portillo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 391 of 453 (647929)
01-12-2012 2:17 AM
Reply to: Message 390 by saab93f
01-12-2012 2:02 AM


Is that all you have to add to the discussion? Pathetic insults add nothing.

And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12

This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by saab93f, posted 01-12-2012 2:02 AM saab93f has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 392 by saab93f, posted 01-12-2012 2:39 AM Portillo has responded

  
saab93f
Member
Posts: 183
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 392 of 453 (647932)
01-12-2012 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 391 by Portillo
01-12-2012 2:17 AM


Pathetic insults are just about what people who use science as a tool to defend their lies deserve.

It is just so convenient to say GDI whenever a difficult question arises - even though one would assume that 515 ft long barge was built and put to float, there are gazillion unanswered questions regarding the feasibility of such a vessel when even the slightest waves existed.

ZD said that there was no mention of winds and thus there is no way of "knowing" (knowing now in the same sense that we know that Anakin was Luke´s father) whether there were waves at all.

If I am not mistaken, no-one has claimed that earth stopped rotating before the flud. The rotation is one of the reasons winds exist to begin with so ergo the had to be winds and thus waves.

What I really really despise is the ark apologetics tendency to use vague scientificish authorities to support their agenda and when pressed come up with nothing or almost nothing but never with something that would honestly corrobate their data.

I hope this clears up my position a bit - when I say that ark apologetics are liars and frauds, that is not an insult but a statement.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 391 by Portillo, posted 01-12-2012 2:17 AM Portillo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 393 by Portillo, posted 01-12-2012 7:29 AM saab93f has not yet responded
 Message 395 by RAZD, posted 01-12-2012 10:59 AM saab93f has responded

  
Portillo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 393 of 453 (647945)
01-12-2012 7:29 AM
Reply to: Message 392 by saab93f
01-12-2012 2:39 AM


And for some reason you enjoy discussing the flood. Thats why your here.

And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by saab93f, posted 01-12-2012 2:39 AM saab93f has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 24504
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 394 of 453 (647960)
01-12-2012 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 389 by Portillo
01-12-2012 1:34 AM


Just like your retelling of the Amish School house shooting, this is yet another example of the Christian Cult of ********* just making shit up.

Have you read Kon Tiki? Do you know the chronology of Heyerdahl's voyages?

You need to learn to check what the teachers and pastors and ministers tell you because they far too often just make shit up.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 389 by Portillo, posted 01-12-2012 1:34 AM Portillo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 400 by Portillo, posted 01-13-2012 12:03 AM jar has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 15471
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 395 of 453 (647967)
01-12-2012 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 392 by saab93f
01-12-2012 2:39 AM


clarification
Hi saab93f,

Please no partial allusions without all the context, or do you want to be like the creationist quote miners?

ZD said that there was no mention of winds and thus there is no way of "knowing" (knowing now in the same sense that we know that Anakin was Luke´s father) whether there were waves at all.

If I am not mistaken, no-one has claimed that earth stopped rotating before the flud. The rotation is one of the reasons winds exist to begin with so ergo the had to be winds and thus waves.

Rotation itself has little effect on waves, it affects tides. If you want to consider tides a global scale wave, then you must also realize that it would still appear as flat as the ocean does today.

What we don't know is how strong the wind or how high the waves would have been, and thus cannot definitively say that they would necessarily cause problems for a hypothetical vessel.

As far as I am concerned the feasibility of building a vessel of this size is a silly argument when compared to: (a) was there a flood? (b) how many species could fit in the ark? (c) how could all those species survive for the 100+ days aboard? and (d) how did all the species of plants and animals get distributed to their specific locations around the world?

Making bad arguments is no way to debate bad arguments.

Enjoy

Edited by Zen Deist, : hypo


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by saab93f, posted 01-12-2012 2:39 AM saab93f has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 396 by saab93f, posted 01-12-2012 11:07 AM RAZD has responded

  
saab93f
Member
Posts: 183
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 396 of 453 (647968)
01-12-2012 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 395 by RAZD
01-12-2012 10:59 AM


Re: clarification
Well, the Coriolis effect sure is one of the components behind certain winds and that is just because of the rotation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_effect#Meteorology

Without anything to hinder the airflow the effect would make waves even though the fountains of the deep had flowed peacefully and the rain had been dense mist


This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by RAZD, posted 01-12-2012 10:59 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 397 by RAZD, posted 01-12-2012 11:31 AM saab93f has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 15471
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 397 of 453 (647971)
01-12-2012 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 396 by saab93f
01-12-2012 11:07 AM


Re: clarification
Hi again saab93f,

Well, the Coriolis effect sure is one of the components behind certain winds and that is just because of the rotation.

And this would also affect the water. With no land one could easily balance the other with the effect that there would be little surface wind.

Storm strength winds on the other hand are due to differential heating and cooling of land and water masses and between day and night, one hot the other cold. With only water surfaces this effect would be very much reduced.

Without anything to hinder the airflow the effect would make waves even though the fountains of the deep had flowed peacefully and the rain had been dense mist

Indeed, but the question is how big those waves would be. Ripples don't cut it.

So do the math and show how large those waves would necessarily have to be. Anything less is speculation and assumption, things, curiously, that I set little store by.

Speculating about hypothetical waves and winds is to me even more pointless and self-indulgent mental masturbation than discussions of the structure of the ark. I have better things to waste my time on.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 396 by saab93f, posted 01-12-2012 11:07 AM saab93f has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 398 by saab93f, posted 01-12-2012 11:39 AM RAZD has responded

  
saab93f
Member
Posts: 183
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 398 of 453 (647972)
01-12-2012 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 397 by RAZD
01-12-2012 11:31 AM


Re: clarification
Well, as you said this debate is totally pointless since the flood and the ark did not exist. We might just as well be talking about Tatooine sandstorms here

However the winds are either see and land breezes (which would not happen if there was no land) and planetary winds (Trade winds, Westerlies and Easterlies) and they are what the great big oceanic waves are made of.

A wooden boat the size suggested could not tolerate even average oceanic waves left alone stormy waves (as has been shown in earlier posts).

We all have better things to do than mental gymnastics I hope - have a nice day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevailing_winds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_wave

Edited by saab93f, : Added another link.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 397 by RAZD, posted 01-12-2012 11:31 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 399 by RAZD, posted 01-12-2012 11:52 AM saab93f has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 15471
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 399 of 453 (647973)
01-12-2012 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 398 by saab93f
01-12-2012 11:39 AM


Re: clarification
Hi again saab93f

A wooden boat the size suggested could not tolerate even average oceanic waves left alone stormy waves (as has been shown in earlier posts).

And refuted in Message 387.

Show that (a) they would be worse than the waves that were encountered by the Wyoming in 14+ years as a hard-pressed wind-jammer crossing the oceans, and (b) that the ark would be structurally inferior to the Wyoming.

We all have better things to do than mental gymnastics I hope - have a nice day.

Yeah, I have bills to pay, which curiously is more appealing.

Enjoy.

Edited by Zen Deist, : link


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by saab93f, posted 01-12-2012 11:39 AM saab93f has not yet responded

  
Portillo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 400 of 453 (648056)
01-13-2012 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 394 by jar
01-12-2012 9:12 AM


Just making shit up.

Try to debate without using swear words.


And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12

This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by jar, posted 01-12-2012 9:12 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 401 by DC85, posted 01-13-2012 12:32 AM Portillo has responded
 Message 403 by jar, posted 01-13-2012 9:36 AM Portillo has not yet responded

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 45 days)
Posts: 854
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 401 of 453 (648057)
01-13-2012 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 400 by Portillo
01-13-2012 12:03 AM


Try to debate without using swear words.

I find it rather funny that rather than addressing the points raised you picked that part of it out to seemingly avoid them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by Portillo, posted 01-13-2012 12:03 AM Portillo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 402 by Portillo, posted 01-13-2012 2:19 AM DC85 has not yet responded

    
Portillo
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 402 of 453 (648060)
01-13-2012 2:19 AM
Reply to: Message 401 by DC85
01-13-2012 12:32 AM


There are many sources stating that the Amish community offered forgiveness.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...f-victims-for-forgiveness.html
http://www.nationalreview.com/...child-killer/john-podhoretz
http://www.cross-currents.com/...006/10/17/not-always-divine
http://www.turkishweekly.net/...r-amish-school-massacre.html
http://www.reuters.com/...amish-school-idUSN1229970820070913


And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12

This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by DC85, posted 01-13-2012 12:32 AM DC85 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 404 by jar, posted 01-13-2012 9:38 AM Portillo has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 24504
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 403 of 453 (648115)
01-13-2012 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 400 by Portillo
01-13-2012 12:03 AM


But that is not a swear word but an honest assessment of what both of those posts contained.

You do understand that I was trying to be polite and not have to tell you that both your Amish School House story and your Heyerdahl contained out and out lies concocted by some preacher who understood that folk like you, Creationists and believers in nonsense like the Flood will accept the tale because you value Testimony over honesty.

Since the ministers and pastors and brothers and saints lie to you about really easy to check stuff like the Heyerdahl story, how can you possibly believe the stuff they sell you that is not easy to check?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by Portillo, posted 01-13-2012 12:03 AM Portillo has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 24504
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 404 of 453 (648116)
01-13-2012 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 402 by Portillo
01-13-2012 2:19 AM


Yup, but the supposed suicide letter is pure fabrication just like Heyerdahl reading Genesis and suddenly discovering pitch.

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 402 by Portillo, posted 01-13-2012 2:19 AM Portillo has not yet responded

  
Stargaze
Junior Member (Idle past 389 days)
Posts: 6
Joined: 05-24-2012


Message 405 of 453 (664043)
05-28-2012 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 390 by saab93f
01-12-2012 2:02 AM


I think what happens is, people often become believers through family, culture and quite often they hear these emotion stories about how Christ died for them etc etc. I believe countries like America do a good job [as in successful] of selling the story of Christ.

So when it comes to the global flood it's quite easy for people to use things like miracles and statements like "things were different back then" to get around the problems these ancient tales all possess.

Kurt Wise, a famous Christian scientist famously said that even if all the evidence in the Universe was against creationism, he'd still believe what the Bible says. After all, if they doubt the flood or any other story, then the Bible essentially becomes useless.

At any rate, getting to the reason I posted in the first place. If I remember right, most creationists claim that the K-Pg boundary was caused by a meteor but DURING the global flood and not 65 million years ago. I can only fathom the waves Noah would be encountering on his year long trip.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by saab93f, posted 01-12-2012 2:02 AM saab93f has not yet responded

    
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