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Author Topic:   The Irrefutable Public Health Care Thread
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 46 of 314 (649732)
01-25-2012 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by dronestar
01-25-2012 10:07 AM


Re: We All Get Old and Decrepit No Matter How Many Sit-Ups We Do
BK is delivering the garden salad with large fries and a shake as we speak
Well then try to pump out a few more sit-ups tonight, I'd get it somewhere around 200 just to start making any progress.
Keep the carbs low and the exercise on high and you'll avoid most any illness and won't slip and fall like a fatty.
- Oni

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onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 47 of 314 (649733)
01-25-2012 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Straggler
01-25-2012 10:08 AM


Re: We All Get Old and Decrepit No Matter How Many Sit-Ups We Do
double post
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Straggler, posted 01-25-2012 10:08 AM Straggler has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 48 of 314 (649734)
01-25-2012 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Straggler
01-25-2012 10:08 AM


Re: We All Get Old and Decrepit No Matter How Many Sit-Ups We Do
And no amount of sit-ups will protect you or anyone else from all of these things.
You can't prove that.
Furthermore even those who are lucky enough to live most of their lives without any significant medical need will very probably eventually reach and age where they need some form of medical help. In some cases minor, simply to make the accumulation of minor ailments that old age results in less of an issue. In other cases significant medical assistance will be needed because age related deterioration results in painful and debilitating conditions that can take many years to reach the point of actual death.
Those who have lived such a life should gracefully, and proudly, bow out of this thing we call life. Your time is up when it is up. Why waste tons of money that can be better allocated to keep old people alive who nature has deemed unfit for survival?
I say, take the money we spend on insurance and save it. Eat better, exercise on a DAILY basis, and then invest the money you saved. Like back into the government for other services through higher taxes.
On this basis we wouldn't bother with medical science period would we? Penicillin is not the work of the devil Oni.
Why did we need penicillin? Because of unhealthy living. The native American Indians didn't need penicillin. Why? Healthy living.
Good balance of healthy diet and plenty of outdoor exercise, coupled with letting the weak ones die, ensures a better species that doesn't suck on the government teet begging for healthcare.
It is these acts of collective risk sharing and compassion for others that allow us to justifiably describe the societies we have created as "civilised"......
This is tree hugging BS.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Straggler, posted 01-25-2012 10:08 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 58 by Omnivorous, posted 01-25-2012 12:37 PM onifre has replied
 Message 61 by Straggler, posted 01-25-2012 12:49 PM onifre has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 49 of 314 (649735)
01-25-2012 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by onifre
01-25-2012 11:12 AM


Re: We All Get Old and Decrepit No Matter How Many Sit-Ups We Do
This is some high-caliber trolling! Love it.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 50 of 314 (649736)
01-25-2012 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by crashfrog
01-25-2012 11:15 AM


Re: We All Get Old and Decrepit No Matter How Many Sit-Ups We Do
This is some high-caliber trolling! Love it.
Yet another example of the bias against creos here. You wouldn't love it if Buz were saying these things.
Of course, if it were Buz, it wouldn't be trolling because he would actually believe this rot.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 51 of 314 (649737)
01-25-2012 11:53 AM


I'm claiming Poe here.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

Replies to this message:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 52 of 314 (649738)
01-25-2012 11:54 AM


America gets an F for Fatty
Another example of why healthcare isn't the problem, it's us!
F as in Fat: How Obesity Threatens America's Future 2011
From the article:
quote:
Adult obesity rates increased in 16 states in the past year and did not decline in any state, according to F as in Fat: How Obesity Threatens America's Future 2011, a report from the Trust for America's Health (TFAH) and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation (RWJF). Twelve states now have obesity rates above 30 percent. Four years ago, only one state was above 30 percent.
How could we ask for MORE from the government and ask so LITTLE from ourselves? Healthcare is a privilage, as well it should be, awarded to those who take really good care of themselves through low carb, ZERO fatty foods, and an active lifestyle (I suggest 3-4 miles of jogging with at least 1 hour weight lifting).
And to show this isn't about Republican or Democrat:
quote:
The obesity epidemic continues to be most dramatic in the South, which includes nine of the 10 states with the highest adult obesity rates. States in the Northeast and West tend to have lower rates. Mississippi maintained the highest adult obesity rate for the seventh year in a row, and Colorado has the lowest obesity rate and is the only state with a rate under 20 percent.
As you can see, it's the Red states who are the fat people in our society. It's the one good thing about the Dems: They all shop at Whole Foods and do yoga. This is a good thing that we should all model ourselves after.
And again we continue to solve problems with a balance of dieting and exercise. We rid ourselves of insurance companies and limit those who can have it to only those who workout and eat well, which gets rid of the old, weaker ones, and especially the FAT ones, and inturn gets rid of most of the South.
It's a win win here.
- Oni

Replies to this message:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 53 of 314 (649739)
01-25-2012 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by jar
01-25-2012 9:20 AM


Re: We All Get Old and Decrepit No Matter How Many Sit-Ups We Do
Hey, don't knock sit ups. I can tell you that at my age I'm thrilled every single morning when I find I really can sit up. Made it through one more.
I hope you're not mocking me.
- Oni

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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 54 of 314 (649740)
01-25-2012 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Tangle
01-25-2012 11:53 AM


I'm claiming Poe here.
It's a pretty damned good Poe though, isn't it? Had me triple-checking who wrote the posts.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

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Replies to this message:
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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 55 of 314 (649741)
01-25-2012 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Rahvin
01-25-2012 12:01 PM


Rahvin writes:
Had me triple-checking who wrote the posts.
Indeed, I think I accidentally Poed myself!
(You'd think I was a little too old for that kind of "accident")

This message is a reply to:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3977
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 56 of 314 (649742)
01-25-2012 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by onifre
01-25-2012 9:10 AM


Re: Burger King delivers!!!
Jesus Christ, how can we have the balls to demand health coverage from our government when WE are the cause of our own problems?
- Oni
Dear Oni,
Because what you do for the fattest of these, you do for me.
Your friend,
Jesus

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 57 of 314 (649744)
01-25-2012 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by onifre
01-25-2012 11:54 AM


It's not the calories or the activity
Healthcare is a privilage, as well it should be, awarded to those who take really good care of themselves through low carb, ZERO fatty foods, and an active lifestyle (I suggest 3-4 miles of jogging with at least 1 hour weight lifting).
4 miles of jogging burns approximately 250 calories, about the same amount of energy in a pack of Tic-Tacs. The human body is incredibly efficient; you can't meaningfully exercise your way to thinness. The obese, especially, develop primarily "slow-twitch" muscle that exerts force incredibly efficiently. But even if you were a professional athlete who could spend 8-10 hours a day, every day, working out - ten or twenty times the physical activity of the average American - you'll find that, at most, you'll only double or triple your caloric expenditures. You'll abundantly improve your health, just as long as you don't kill yourself.
And if you can't eat carbs, and you can't eat fats, and you can't eat proteins (because they cause cancer) what's left, exactly? You have to eat something, and your body will simply react to a calorie-restricted diet by extracting more calories from it. The obese overwhelmingly tend to eat less than their healthy peers.
Mass-balance nutrition, like Oni is talking about, has to be put to bed. Your body has a set-point weight. Gaining weight and keeping it moves your set-point up. Lose weight to below that set-point, and your body will simply hoard calories to get you back up. Calorie intake has to be understood as an active and adaptive process that responds to your body's perception of its caloric needs, not just a passive process where the only input is your pie-hole. I'm sure that Oni, and others, can point to instances where a little discipline and exercise produced dramatic weight loss, but these will overwhelmingly be the loss of pounds that were gained only in the past few years. When we're talking about people who became obese as children even as they ate less than their thinner peers, no realistic amount of exercise and calorie restriction is going to have much of an effect on their weight.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by onifre, posted 01-25-2012 11:54 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 62 by onifre, posted 01-25-2012 1:02 PM crashfrog has replied
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3977
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(3)
Message 58 of 314 (649750)
01-25-2012 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by onifre
01-25-2012 11:12 AM


Re: We All Get Old and Decrepit No Matter How Many Sit-Ups We Do
Oni writes:
Those who have lived such a life should gracefully, and proudly, bow out of this thing we call life. Your time is up when it is up. Why waste tons of money that can be better allocated to keep old people alive who nature has deemed unfit for survival?
Naw, I'm gonna cling to life as hard as that dirty underwear is clinging to your ass.
Despite decades of bad eating, heavy drinking, sexual license, every drug known to man (with new ones appearing every day), Bones says I still have fantastic recuperative powers.
And you, young fella, are going to pay for it.
There's a lot of us freaky geezers (freezers, to those in the know), and we vote. A lot. Even the GOP says I'm old enough so that I'll keep my Medicare even if they take yours, so tough titty.
Either they're honorable men who will keep their word, or they've sold their souls for votes: in either case, I'm good.
Close schools, shut down vaccination programs, neglect the infrastructure--what do I care? I know all I need to know, my vaccines are covered, and who cares if the roads go to shit? I've been everywhere already.
While you have yet to prove you have much staying power at all. Anybody can live a few decades with the help of youthful vigor--it's the decades that require guile and deceit that really test a phenotype.
So do all the sit-ups you like, kid, as long as you still bend over and pay those taxes.
I'm gonna cling to life until I need transplants, and then I'm gonna hack the donor database until I find some young Republican with the right profile (maybe a Mormon) who never had a drink and never enjoyed a smoke, and push him in front of a bus moving not too fast and not too slow. That's my idea of moderation.
And when some young hotshot in the lab figures out how to repair my telomeres and reverse my aging process, I'm gonna vote to make sure that the...mature citizens most at risk get that first. That's only fair.
Maybe, if you've got the grit and the fire, you'll make it, too.
Whatevs.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by onifre, posted 01-25-2012 11:12 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by onifre, posted 01-25-2012 1:09 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 59 of 314 (649751)
01-25-2012 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by crashfrog
01-25-2012 12:23 PM


"Mass-balance nutrition"
I am not educated enough on "Mass-balance nutrition" to debate anyone on the subject, but it seems Molbiogirl is quite knowledgeable: Side Orders ⇒ The Book Nook ⇒ Good Calories, Bad Calories, by Gary Taubes>
She doesn't seem to post very often, but I'd find the thread VERY interesting if the thread could be re-activated. Especially how different cultures (e.g., Chinese and French) consume high calories yet have far less obesity than the usa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by crashfrog, posted 01-25-2012 12:23 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 60 of 314 (649752)
01-25-2012 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by onifre
01-25-2012 9:10 AM


Re: Burger King delivers!!!
onifre writes:
The government should NOT provide free healthcare and should instead spend OUR money stopping us from killing ourselves.
Then I suggest you argue that the government supply revolvers to emergency rooms, and enact legislation requiring that if anybody shows up at an emergency room without clear evidence of insurance, a bullet should be put through their head.
Jesus Christ, how can we have the balls to demand health coverage from our government when WE are the cause of our own problems?
The cost of medical premiums has exceeded my actual medical costs every year. I don't have a problem with paying for myself.
My problem is with the freeloaders, who expect to get treated at an emergency room. And the cost of that finishes up as part of my insurance premiums.
I doubt that a modern society could do what I suggested in my first reply sentence. And if it cannot do that, then public supported healthcare is unavoidable. So the real question is how to make it more rational and affordable than the dysfunctional system that we currently have.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

This message is a reply to:
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