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Author Topic:   The Irrefutable Public Health Care Thread
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 61 of 314 (649753)
01-25-2012 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by onifre
01-25-2012 11:12 AM


Re: We All Get Old and Decrepit No Matter How Many Sit-Ups We Do
Straggler writes:
There will always be those in society who need access to medical facilities. The very young, the disabled, those unlucky enough to suffer sickness and disease through no fault of their own, those who suffer injuries etc. etc. Shit happens. Accidents, disease, illness, birth complications etc. etc. etc. are just facts of human life and always have been. And no amount of sit-ups will protect you or anyone else from all of these things.
Oni writes:
You can’t prove that
People who exercise fanatically and eat healthily still get sick, still have accidents and are not immune to things like birthing complications. Nor is someone like Stephen Hawking in the situation he is because of a lack of push-ups, too many burgers or an irresponsible approach to broccoli intake.
Oni writes:
Those who have lived such a life should gracefully, and proudly, bow out of this thing we call life.
Such a life..?
A couple of posts ago you seemed to be suggesting that ANYONE faced with any medical condition should be left to nature’s fate. I am still very unclear who (If anyone?) you think nature-defying medical attention can be justifiably provided to.
To who do you think nature-defying medical treatments can justifiably be given? Anyone at all? Don’t ALL medical treatments defy nature? Isn’t that kinda the point of them?
Oni writes:
Good balance of healthy diet and plenty of outdoor exercise, coupled with letting the weak ones die, ensures a better species that doesn't suck on the government teet begging for healthcare.
How far can you take this whilst answering questions consistently before you are laughing too hard to type? Let’s find out..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by onifre, posted 01-25-2012 11:12 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by onifre, posted 01-25-2012 1:30 PM Straggler has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 62 of 314 (649755)
01-25-2012 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by crashfrog
01-25-2012 12:23 PM


Re: It's not the calories or the activity
4 miles of jogging burns approximately 250 calories, about the same amount of energy in a pack of Tic-Tacs. The human body is incredibly efficient; you can't meaningfully exercise your way to thinness.
First, it's an overall lifestyle of exercising. My suggestion for the jogging and weight lifting is just to get you STARTED.
By no means am I saying that someone who only jogs 3-4 miles a day and lifts weights should qualify for free healthcare. Free healthcare is for those who exercise a lot more, and of course the children of those who do since, obviously, their DNA is better than the kids who's parents are fat! Also a daily chart of calorie intake and carb intake would be required too.
But even if you were a professional athlete who could spend 8-10 hours a day, every day, working out - ten or twenty times the physical activity of the average American - you'll find that, at most, you'll only double or triple your caloric expenditures.
You'll be much healthier than the women who eat McDonalds and walk around all fat.
Furthermore, you'll just be healthier. Name one athlete that has ever died? I didn't think so.
Mass-balance nutrition, like Oni is talking about, has to be put to bed. Your body has a set-point weight. Gaining weight and keeping it moves your set-point up. Lose weight to below that set-point, and your body will simply hoard calories to get you back up. Calorie intake has to be understood as an active and adaptive process that responds to your body's perception of its caloric needs, not just a passive process where the only input is your pie-hole. I'm sure that Oni, and others, can point to instances where a little discipline and exercise produced dramatic weight loss, but these will overwhelmingly be the loss of pounds that were gained only in the past few years. When we're talking about people who became obese as children even as they ate less than their thinner peers, no realistic amount of exercise and calorie restriction is going to have much of an effect on their weight.
Listen, the fact is, we eat more fast food and plain ole food that's bad for us than the rest of the world, and, we also complain more about healthcare than the rest of the world. And frankly, I believe we would do better if we simply focused our attention on ourselves and handled the problem at home. We can not only save money on insurance but we could put that money to better use, like getting our girlfriends/wives breast implants.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by crashfrog, posted 01-25-2012 12:23 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Perdition, posted 01-25-2012 1:08 PM onifre has not replied
 Message 65 by Omnivorous, posted 01-25-2012 1:09 PM onifre has not replied
 Message 75 by crashfrog, posted 01-25-2012 1:22 PM onifre has replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3238 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 63 of 314 (649756)
01-25-2012 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by onifre
01-25-2012 1:02 PM


Re: It's not the calories or the activity
At first I thought you were being serious, and I wasn't liking the "new" Oni. Then I read this:
Name one athlete that has ever died? I didn't think so.
And now it has to be that you're parodying or something.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by onifre, posted 01-25-2012 1:02 PM onifre has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 64 of 314 (649758)
01-25-2012 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Omnivorous
01-25-2012 12:37 PM


Re: We All Get Old and Decrepit No Matter How Many Sit-Ups We Do
Maybe, if you've got the grit and the fire, you'll make it, too.
Me too.
200 sit-ups, 200 push-ups, 45min of cardio, 45min of wieght lifting, that's just this morning. I'll probably end the day with a 6-7 mile power walk. I suggest everyone do the same.
Also, it wouldn't hurt to replace a meal with a protein shake.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Omnivorous, posted 01-25-2012 12:37 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Phat, posted 01-25-2012 1:13 PM onifre has not replied
 Message 69 by Omnivorous, posted 01-25-2012 1:15 PM onifre has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 65 of 314 (649759)
01-25-2012 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by onifre
01-25-2012 1:02 PM


Re: It's not the calories or the activity
Oni writes:
we could put that money to better use, like getting our girlfriends/wives breast implants.
In this regard, like you on health, I prefer to recommend making wiser choices in life. Why should I pay to make your boy-like girl look more like a girl?
Don't want no plastic titties: they don't feel right.
Call me old-fashioned. If you want better boob options, do more sit-ups.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by onifre, posted 01-25-2012 1:02 PM onifre has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 66 of 314 (649760)
01-25-2012 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by onifre
01-25-2012 1:09 PM


Re: We All Get Old and Decrepit No Matter How Many Sit-Ups We Do
IIRC, you used to be kinda chunky as a comedian...are you now buff and funny both?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by onifre, posted 01-25-2012 1:09 PM onifre has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Straggler, posted 01-25-2012 1:14 PM Phat has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 67 of 314 (649761)
01-25-2012 1:14 PM


Adminitrator help?
Can some administrator please check to see if Oni's account has been hijacked.

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Omnivorous, posted 01-25-2012 1:18 PM dronestar has not replied
 Message 72 by onifre, posted 01-25-2012 1:19 PM dronestar has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 68 of 314 (649762)
01-25-2012 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Phat
01-25-2012 1:13 PM


Re: We All Get Old and Decrepit No Matter How Many Sit-Ups We Do
He buffed up but lost his comedic mojo.
Everyone know fat people are funny.......

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Phat, posted 01-25-2012 1:13 PM Phat has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 69 of 314 (649763)
01-25-2012 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by onifre
01-25-2012 1:09 PM


Re: We All Get Old and Decrepit No Matter How Many Sit-Ups We Do
Oni writes:
200 sit-ups, 200 push-ups, 45min of cardio, 45min of wieght lifting, that's just this morning. I'll probably end the day with a 6-7 mile power walk. I suggest everyone do the same.
That's nice.
Let me know when you hit 60.
I'll be in Costa Rica, getting new teeth to go with my cheap wine, good bread and young girls.
Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by onifre, posted 01-25-2012 1:09 PM onifre has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 70 of 314 (649764)
01-25-2012 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by nwr
01-25-2012 12:41 PM


Re: Burger King delivers!!!
Then I suggest you argue that the government supply revolvers to emergency rooms, and enact legislation requiring that if anybody shows up at an emergency room without clear evidence of insurance, a bullet should be put through their head.
That's just nonsense.
So the real question is how to make it more rational and affordable than the dysfunctional system that we currently have.
Only offer it to those who are in really good shape.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by nwr, posted 01-25-2012 12:41 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 71 of 314 (649765)
01-25-2012 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by dronestar
01-25-2012 1:14 PM


Re: Adminitrator help?
dronester writes:
Can some administrator please check to see if Oni's account has been hijacked.
He quit smoking: he's now in the zealot phase.
This, too, shall pass.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by dronestar, posted 01-25-2012 1:14 PM dronestar has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 72 of 314 (649766)
01-25-2012 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by dronestar
01-25-2012 1:14 PM


Re: Adminitrator help?
Can some administrator please check to see if Oni's account has been hijacked.
It's been hijacked with the #TRUTH. Let's get serious guys, we're talking free healthcare here.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by dronestar, posted 01-25-2012 1:14 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by dronestar, posted 01-25-2012 1:21 PM onifre has not replied
 Message 76 by Omnivorous, posted 01-25-2012 1:24 PM onifre has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 73 of 314 (649767)
01-25-2012 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by onifre
01-25-2012 1:19 PM


Re: Adminitrator help?
Either Oni has had some type of head-trauma recently or this isn't Oni.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by onifre, posted 01-25-2012 1:19 PM onifre has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Straggler, posted 01-25-2012 7:48 PM dronestar has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 74 of 314 (649768)
01-25-2012 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Taq
01-24-2012 3:05 PM


Of course public healthcare will increase taxes.
But it doesn't.
If we look at the UK, at France, at Canada, or indeed if we look at Finland which was produced at random on this thread and frees me of suspicion of cherry-picking, the U.S. government is paying more per capita to prop up a broken system than to institute one that actually works. The figures are black and white.
Assuming there isn't something special about the U.S. which is both awful and completely unfixable, the U.S. would have lower taxes if the U.S. had a proper system of public healthcare.
You just assume what people want everyone to assume --- that the U.S. has a capitalist system of healthcare, and that if there is one good thing to be said about capitalism, it's that it means lower taxes. The second of those propositions may be true, but the first is a damned lie.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Taq, posted 01-24-2012 3:05 PM Taq has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 75 of 314 (649769)
01-25-2012 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by onifre
01-25-2012 1:02 PM


Re: It's not the calories or the activity
First, it's an overall lifestyle of exercising. My suggestion for the jogging and weight lifting is just to get you STARTED.
There's only so many hours, so you're not just talking about a "lifestyle of exercise", you're asking people to abandon other leisure activities in favor of exercise. Recreational reading? Only on audiobook. That boat you're building in the garage? Not enough cardio in woodworking. Bridge club? Fuck those old bints, you've got to go do a 5k. Sell your golf clubs, if that was really a sport you wouldn't do it in pants. And, of course, this is all enforced by the healthcare gun to your head, even if your disease is not actually related to your weight or fitness. (Lance Armstrong's cancer was, no doubt, a figment of his imagination. Magic Johnson got AIDS by not playing basketball enough.)
You'll be much healthier than the women who eat McDonalds and walk around all fat.
They're walking, at least; I'm sitting here on a couch watching Downton Abbey, for which I'm sure you'll call me a fag.
Name one athlete that has ever died? I didn't think so.
Ok, I admit - I lol'd. Aw, I can't stay mad at you, Oni. Go on, call me a fag - you've earned it!
Listen, the fact is, we eat more fast food and plain ole food that's bad for us than the rest of the world, and, we also complain more about healthcare than the rest of the world.
Because our healthcare is, actually, a lot worse in ways that can't be explained by Americans just being worse patients. Our rates of medical errors are higher. Our rates of nosocomial infections are higher. Our doctors are genuinely worse but they get paid the most of any nation's doctors.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by onifre, posted 01-25-2012 1:02 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by onifre, posted 01-25-2012 2:18 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
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