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Author Topic:   The Irrefutable Public Health Care Thread
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 136 of 314 (650028)
01-27-2012 6:41 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Shield
01-26-2012 6:47 PM


Re: We don't need public healthcare
Im not fat, im not old, im the stairmaster. So how would a low carb diet have prevented my incidents?
It is a fact that most if not all slip and falls occur to people over weight. I can only take you on your word that you are NOT fat.
If we're not going to be genuinely honest with one another we can't move forward in this debate.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Shield, posted 01-26-2012 6:47 PM Shield has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Tangle, posted 01-27-2012 6:49 AM onifre has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 137 of 314 (650030)
01-27-2012 6:49 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Theodoric
01-26-2012 8:29 PM


Re: I can't make this stuff up
Universal healthcare is not free healthcare.
Yeah, yeah, I get they use our taxes but you know what I mean. Don't get so technical about it. I'm just talking about healthcare that you don't have to pay an insurance company for.
My taxes, if you want to go this route instead, should not be used to help the Paula Deen's of this country stuff their faces with burgers and fries with type 2 diabetes while also giving them healthcare.
ANYONE not on a low carb/daily exercise program should NOT be allow universal healthcare. It hurts the overall cost of medical treatment and the medicine that we purchase.
And frankly, over weight people are an eye sore.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Theodoric, posted 01-26-2012 8:29 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 138 of 314 (650031)
01-27-2012 6:49 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by onifre
01-27-2012 6:41 AM


Re: We don't need public healthcare
It is a fact that most if not all slip and falls occur to people over weight.
Nah, they occur to people who are old and whose hips, knees and ankles have crumbled. That's why enlightened societies have Falls Clinics for the elderly.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

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Uncle Gruber
Junior Member (Idle past 4443 days)
Posts: 6
Joined: 02-23-2011


Message 139 of 314 (650033)
01-27-2012 7:03 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by onifre
01-26-2012 2:49 PM


Re: Staying on topic
Hold up, hold up:
quote:
at the pharmacy
Can you get cigarettes in pharmacies in the US?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by onifre, posted 01-26-2012 2:49 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by onifre, posted 01-27-2012 7:25 AM Uncle Gruber has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 140 of 314 (650034)
01-27-2012 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by Straggler
01-27-2012 5:39 AM


Re: Fat Tax
The easiest way for private insurers to reduce costs seems to be to find loopholes in coverage so that they don't have to payout even when people get ill.
Well they shouldn't have to when it's self inflicted as in most cases of people getting ill.
If you take away healthcare, I mean get rid of it completely, we would faze out the weak, the over weight, the genetically inferior, and what's left is a strong, fit, superior species that would need little to NO healthcare coverage.
That's the easiet way. That is the NATURAL order of life. Why are you, and others, trying to fuck with that system of regulating when it has gotten our species this far in the history of life?
Where was healthcare for hominids? The first of the homo-genus? It was called nature: natural selection, fucking evolution man. We are creating a weak species that now DEMANDS healthcare. But why? Why not let nature take it's course?
I see. Your answer to America's health problems isn't to provide a nationalised health service but is to instead provide a nationalised health-food and gym chain?
My answer is not to provide anything at all. There are gyms, there are streets, there are parks and all kinds of other means to work out and stay fit. Also, there is plenty of healthy food out there that everyone can afford. Get on it America. And the rest of the world too for that matter.
No government involvement AT ALL on anything that you should be handling yourself.
My way is simple and easy, let nature weed out those who are unfit like it does every single day for every single other animal.
Instead though, you would rather intervene in that process. You would rather create a system of providing care and medicine to keep alive those who couldn't stay alive if not for that care. Now it's to the point where we are fighting with one another as to which system of intervening with nature we want to have. It's absolutely ridiculous that as a species we would do this. Nuts!
And what's overall cost to the rest of us? Limited resources, congested cities, failing economical systems, no jobs, diseases running fucking rampant to the point where you can't eat a piece of meat without thinking some virus is going to kill you, and the list goes on.
We have too many people on this rock. We shouldn't be so limited in our resources and yet a whole fucking planet that has been far more than enough for every other species that has ever existed, including the enormous dinosuars, is now no enough for one, greedy, selfish species. Seriously?
You want universal healthcare to keep more people alive, enjoy it. I will have no part of that. The extinction of our species will not be on my hands.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Straggler, posted 01-27-2012 5:39 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Straggler, posted 01-27-2012 8:58 AM onifre has replied
 Message 145 by Taq, posted 01-27-2012 12:38 PM onifre has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 141 of 314 (650035)
01-27-2012 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Uncle Gruber
01-27-2012 7:03 AM


Re: Staying on topic
Can you get cigarettes in pharmacies in the US?
Yes sir. The irony, right?
But a simple "no thank you" and walking away would solve that issue of having to buy them. But stupid Americans can't seem to say no to cigarettes.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Uncle Gruber, posted 01-27-2012 7:03 AM Uncle Gruber has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Uncle Gruber, posted 01-27-2012 7:33 AM onifre has seen this message but not replied

  
Uncle Gruber
Junior Member (Idle past 4443 days)
Posts: 6
Joined: 02-23-2011


(1)
Message 142 of 314 (650037)
01-27-2012 7:33 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by onifre
01-27-2012 7:25 AM


Re: Staying on topic
Holy crap, and there was me thinking living in the US might be nice for the high average wage I would earn there. Not at the cost of my ethics, no sir.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by onifre, posted 01-27-2012 7:25 AM onifre has seen this message but not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(2)
Message 143 of 314 (650041)
01-27-2012 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by onifre
01-27-2012 7:22 AM


Re: Fat Tax
Oni writes:
If you take away healthcare, I mean get rid of it completely, we would faze out the weak, the over weight, the genetically inferior, and what's left is a strong, fit, superior species that would need little to NO healthcare coverage.
That's the easiet way. That is the NATURAL order of life. Why are you, and others, trying to fuck with that system of regulating when it has gotten our species this far in the history of life?
Oni writes:
No government involvement AT ALL on anything that you should be handling yourself.
Complete law of the jungle then?
Why have a police force or laws if they just stand in the way of natural selection? Why put out fires rather than find out who is physically able to escape for themselves? National infrastructure for things like energy or clean water? Surely this just deters people from building their own generators and gaining much needed exercise by collecting their own water from the local river - Right?
The main asset that we humans have is our ability to think and act collectively. That we are not limited to mere individual physical attributes for survival in the way that so many other species are is the greatest gift natural selection has bestowed upon us as a species.
By insisting upon an individualistic "survival of the fittest" approach it is you, not I, who is flying in the face of natural selection.
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by onifre, posted 01-27-2012 7:22 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by onifre, posted 01-27-2012 3:23 PM Straggler has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 144 of 314 (650051)
01-27-2012 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by onifre
01-27-2012 6:38 AM


Re: I can't make this stuff up
You want government, or me, getting involved in what you feed yourself?
It already does:
USDA
FDA
Remember this thing?
The government already has a say in what people eat and already takes steps to help people make healthier choices.
It is not outside of the realm of reasonability that the government would take further steps to ensure healthy eating by its citizenry. In Denmark, for example:
quote:
Wikipedia on Trans Fat:
Denmark became the first country to introduce laws strictly regulating the sale of many foods containing trans fats in March 2003, a move which effectively bans partially hydrogenated oils.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by onifre, posted 01-27-2012 6:38 AM onifre has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 145 of 314 (650083)
01-27-2012 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by onifre
01-27-2012 7:22 AM


Re: Fat Tax
If you take away healthcare, I mean get rid of it completely, we would faze out the weak, the over weight, the genetically inferior, and what's left is a strong, fit, superior species that would need little to NO healthcare coverage.
That's the easiet way. That is the NATURAL order of life. Why are you, and others, trying to fuck with that system of regulating when it has gotten our species this far in the history of life?
This is a common misconception with regards to evolution. It is in the "interest" of every species to preserve as much variation as possible, even variation that appears to be less fit. There are cases of beneficial mutations that rely on two mutations, the first of which could be slightly deleterious. There are also cases of two alleles being slightly detrimental on their own, but beneficial when together. Also, a detrimental mutation in one evnironment could be beneficial in a different environment, either geographically or temporally.
Long story short, the more variation the better. Monocultures are bad, very bad.
No government involvement AT ALL on anything that you should be handling yourself.
That has never worked in the modern world. Hunter/gatherer groups with no organization are easily subjugated by nations with organized governments. The Roman Empire was a perfect example of this. They conquered and then absorbed countless nations that lacked a strong centralized government. Also, governments are there to protect ourselves from each other.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by onifre, posted 01-27-2012 7:22 AM onifre has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(1)
Message 146 of 314 (650087)
01-27-2012 1:17 PM


I dont know, I get the impression Oni is having us on. He is playing devils advocate.

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Perdition, posted 01-27-2012 1:20 PM 1.61803 has not replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3237 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


(1)
Message 147 of 314 (650088)
01-27-2012 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by 1.61803
01-27-2012 1:17 PM


I dont know, I get the impression Oni is having us on. He is playing devils advocate.
But it's still fun to debate him. That is one of the reasons we're here, right?

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 Message 146 by 1.61803, posted 01-27-2012 1:17 PM 1.61803 has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 148 of 314 (650098)
01-27-2012 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by dronestar
01-26-2012 10:11 AM


Re: How about free health care for just mental disease?
Drone writes:
I maintain the Oni on this thread is an imposter
Nah!! He's just fuckin with us big time. And why not?
The more outraged impassioned responses he gets to his obviously lunatic comments the better.
And when Buz starts agreeing wholeheartedly with, and even exceeding, the parody one has to wonder how far parody hast to go before it becomes unrealistic. Message 76

This message is a reply to:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 149 of 314 (650104)
01-27-2012 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Straggler
01-27-2012 8:58 AM


Re: Fat Tax
Complete law of the jungle then?
There's a law in the jungle?
All the stuff you mention are things we built like neighborhoods, buildings, places to worship the great gods, and they're NOT the jungle. Thus, they need policeMEN, fireMEN and etc. But eating and the health you promote is as natural as it was at the dawn of our species.
So the "law of the jungle" as you put it SHOULD be applied.
That we are not limited to mere individual physical attributes for survival in the way that so many other species are is the greatest gift natural selection has bestowed upon us as a species.
Oh I'm SURE. Just ask the Earth if she's enjoy all these buildings on her, destroying her, making it worse and worse everday to live her. One day we'll possibly be looking back from a spaceship with Jesus leaving this planet in search of other resources thinking, how the fuck was a whole entire goddamn planet not enough for us?
And all we need to do to save that is thin the heard by just letting nature take it's course.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Straggler, posted 01-27-2012 8:58 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Straggler, posted 01-27-2012 3:31 PM onifre has replied
 Message 153 by Taq, posted 01-30-2012 1:04 PM onifre has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 150 of 314 (650106)
01-27-2012 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by onifre
01-27-2012 3:23 PM


Re: Fat Tax
Dark Oni writes:
There's a law in the jungle?
Yeah - Nature's law. Survival of the fittest. Isn't that what you advocating?
Dark ONi writes:
All the stuff you mention are things we built like neighborhoods, buildings, places to worship the great gods, and they're NOT the jungle. Thus, they need policeMEN, fireMEN and etc. But eating and the health you promote is as natural as it was at the dawn of our species. So the "law of the jungle" as you put it SHOULD be applied.
Dude we also built hospitals and we also built McDonalds. So what is your point? "Build it and they will come..."?
Dark Oni writes:
Oh I'm SURE. Just ask the Earth if she's enjoy all these buildings on her, destroying her, making it worse and worse everday to live her. One day we'll possibly be looking back from spaceships leaving this planet in search of other resources thinking, how the fuck was a whole entire goddamn planet not enough for us?
And all we need to do to save that is thin the heard by just letting nature take it's course.
I have spoken to mother-nature and she wants universal healthcare.
Listen to the penguins....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by onifre, posted 01-27-2012 3:23 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by onifre, posted 01-27-2012 3:54 PM Straggler has replied

  
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