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Author Topic:   Evidence to expect given a designer
Panda
Member (Idle past 3731 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 318 of 373 (647827)
01-11-2012 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 316 by Just being real
01-11-2012 12:40 PM


Re: Evidence for a designer
JBR writes:
Time is a human invention... a tool if you will, invented to think abstractly.
So...nothing got older before humans existed?
You are equivocating between 'naming' with 'creating'.
We decided to call duration 'time' - we did not create it.
Time existed before mankind.
I really wonder how you could think otherwise.
Straggler writes:
If time is something (which surely it must be) then - By definition there can be no time when there was nothing.
Straggler's point stands.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 316 by Just being real, posted 01-11-2012 12:40 PM Just being real has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 329 by Just being real, posted 01-14-2012 6:45 AM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3731 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 334 of 373 (648319)
01-14-2012 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by Just being real
01-14-2012 6:45 AM


Re: Evidence for a designer
JBR writes:
Therefore change existed long before humans. But the entire construct of the increments we use (and call time) did not exist. We are so proud of our units of time that we have become completely intrenched in them to the point that we even consider them to be literal as if they are a place to be traveled to. We have forgotten that they are merely man made increments to measure the rate at which things change. We can not travel to the "place" of 1955 (as in the moving Back to the Future) because 1955 is not a place it is only a chalk mark on the wall to remember the way things were.
Frequently wrong and completely irrelevant.
(I particularly liked the "We can not travel to the "place" of 1955". Miles are also a human construct, but we can travel to a place 5 miles away, even though they are "only a chalk mark" on the ground.)
The 4th dimension (that we have labelled as 'time') is a 'something' and it exists.
Straggler writes:
If time is something (which surely it must be) then - By definition there can be no time when there was nothing.
Straggler's point still stands.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by Just being real, posted 01-14-2012 6:45 AM Just being real has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3731 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 343 of 373 (649869)
01-26-2012 5:14 AM
Reply to: Message 342 by ookuay
01-25-2012 10:00 PM


Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
Hi
Just a pro-tip...
Every message has a 'reply' button.
If you click the appropriate button then the forum software will help you track replies.
(The software can also email that person, informing them of your reply.)
This means that you won't have:
quote:
This message is a reply to:
Message 340 by Boof, posted 20/01/2012 9:16 AM Boof has not yet responded
and you won't need:
ookuay writes:
@JBR:

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by ookuay, posted 01-25-2012 10:00 PM ookuay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 344 by ookuay, posted 01-26-2012 8:47 AM Panda has seen this message but not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3731 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 347 of 373 (649985)
01-26-2012 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 346 by ookuay
01-26-2012 7:47 PM


Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
ookuay writes:
It's not my math; it's Einstein's.
Could you be slightly more specific?
There is no mention of alternate timelines in the link you provided.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by ookuay, posted 01-26-2012 7:47 PM ookuay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 348 by ookuay, posted 01-26-2012 11:07 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3731 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 350 of 373 (650023)
01-27-2012 5:30 AM
Reply to: Message 348 by ookuay
01-26-2012 11:07 PM


Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
ookuay writes:
I figured it was sort of general knowledge...Einstein is perhaps the most famous physicist and is best known for his theory of relativity. I'm not Einstein so I can't recreate his thoughts but traveling faster than the speed of light should cause one to experience an alternate slower timeline than the rest of the universe. If you're interested, look up "speed of light time travel" or something.
It is also 'general knowledge' that Einstein showed that it was impossible for anything* to travel faster than the speed of light.
"Maximum speed is finite: No physical object, message or field line can travel faster than the speed of light in a vacuum."
This rather undermines your claims that he posited anything regarding time and travelling faster than the speed of light.
And your comment regarding time dilation ("alternate slower timeline"?) seems flawed. It happens at sub-light speeds:
"Time dilation: Moving clocks are measured to tick more slowly than an observer's "stationary" clock."
tbh: my basic grasp of Einstein's theories seems to surpass your own.
You can start reading about Relativity here: Your own link.
ookuay writes:
Instead of "alternate timeline" I would have been more accurate in saying "time-space frame".
I think you would not have been more accurate to say "time-space frame".
Are you actually referring to inertial frames?
So - going back to your original post:
ookuay writes:
@JBR: Time is relative to innate biological clocks, and theoretically moving faster than the speed of light can create an alternate timeline indicating that time does exist and is observable.
No. Even allowing for incorrect terminology: none of that is correct.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by ookuay, posted 01-26-2012 11:07 PM ookuay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 351 by ookuay, posted 01-27-2012 10:48 AM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3731 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 352 of 373 (650075)
01-27-2012 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 351 by ookuay
01-27-2012 10:48 AM


Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
ookuay writes:
Lol, I know
No, you don't.
ookuay writes:
The point is that Einstein has reason to say that alternate timelines can exist. Note the words "in a vacuum". Earth is not a vacuum.
The point is that you clearly have no idea what you are talking about but are convinced that you do.
ookuay writes:
"Alternate timeline" is not incorrect- it's not the terminology used by physicists but definitely works in this context.
Sure, in the context of you making shit up as you go along.
ookuay writes:
This returns us to the fact that time is not a man-made invention, refuting what Just Being Real was saying some time ago.
Which is simply a bare assertion due to none of your arguments being valid.
I would not fault JBR for not being even slightly convinced by your counter-claim of "Nuh uh!".
Are you a Poe?
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by ookuay, posted 01-27-2012 10:48 AM ookuay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 354 by ookuay, posted 01-27-2012 3:05 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3731 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 357 of 373 (650123)
01-27-2012 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 354 by ookuay
01-27-2012 3:05 PM


Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
ookuay writes:
I noticed you didn't give any backing evidence this time as I'm sure I made my point.
You have never shown any evidence to support your claims.
The only thing you have shown is a startling lack of reading ability.
Your claims about it being possible to travel faster than the speed of light "because Earth is not [in] a vacuum" is beyond being simply wrong - it is ridiculous.
Are you sure you are not a Poe?

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 354 by ookuay, posted 01-27-2012 3:05 PM ookuay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 360 by ookuay, posted 01-27-2012 8:30 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3731 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 361 of 373 (650133)
01-27-2012 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 360 by ookuay
01-27-2012 8:30 PM


Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
ookuay writes:
*Theoretically* (though not yet achieved) moving faster than the speed of light (such as neutrinos as per recent Italian experiments) can create an alternate timeline indicating that time does exist and is observable. Einstein thought that FTL travel would split time-space frames (one slower and more contracted)
Please quote him directly as your understanding of physics is not good enough for us to take your word for it.
ookuay writes:
and never said FTL travel was impossible outside of vacuums.
Apart from here: "Maximum speed is finite: No physical object, message or field line can travel faster than the speed of light in a vacuum."
Maybe it would help if I break up that sentence for you:
  • [Maximum speed is finite] This means that their is a limit to how fast anything can travel. This part of the sentence is just a summary of the latter part of the sentence and can therefore be skipped.
  • [No physical object, message or field line] This encompasses most things and can be summarised as 'No thing' or [Nothing].
  • [can travel faster than] This tells us to compare the speeds.
  • [the speed of light in a vacuum] This is a specific speed. It is ~299792458 m/s. The reason that vacuum is mentioned is because light 'slows down' when passing through a non-vacuum. But, for most laymen, the term [Speed of light] sufficiently conveys what is meant.
So - the sentence reads as follows:
Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light.
This directly contradicts your "*Theoretically*" (unless you simply meant *making shit up*).
ookuay writes:
Obviously I don't know in-depth physics
Then why do you insist on posting this utter nonsense?
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by ookuay, posted 01-27-2012 8:30 PM ookuay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 362 by Theodoric, posted 01-27-2012 10:40 PM Panda has seen this message but not replied
 Message 363 by ookuay, posted 01-27-2012 10:46 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3731 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 364 of 373 (650136)
01-27-2012 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 363 by ookuay
01-27-2012 10:46 PM


Re: If a tree falls in the forest...
ookuay writes:
Alright, you could have just said that objects can only slow down in a medium. I didn't catch that.
But if I had said that then I would be talking as much nonsense as you are.
It is actually very simple for objects to slow down in a vacuum.
Only someone with as little knowledge of physics as yourself would not have heard of Newton's 3rd Law of Motion.
ookuay writes:
"This theory has a wide range of consequences which have been experimentally verified, including counter-intuitive ones such as length contraction, time dilation and relativity of simultaneity"+Neutrinos seem to travel faster than the speed of light. FYI: "it would take an infinite amount of energy to accelerate an object with mass to the speed of light. The speed of light is the upper limit for the speeds of objects with positive rest mass"- particles can't accelerate past the speed of light but tachyons can still exist.
Time dilation-->alternate time-space frames.
Taking quotes from Wiki and then appending your own ignorant claims is just bizarre.
I do not know why you are talking about tachyons, when clearly your education does not reach that far.
Your grasp of physics is as tenuous as your grasp of English.
Give it up.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by ookuay, posted 01-27-2012 10:46 PM ookuay has not replied

  
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