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Author | Topic: SOPA/PIPA and 'Intellectual Property' | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined:
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Does your memory record a film in a tangible medium of expression capable of being distributed or copied? Obviously. The means of transmission, the medium of expression, is my mouth.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
So IMO, if you really want to persuade people away from their posted positions, it is you who needs to explain why the copyright system datingf from at least the founding of this country and largely inherited from Great Britain, isn't good enough for you. Because I'm a member of society, and its in the interest of the public to do as they choose with the products that they own. I recognize that that freedom is in tension with the desire of content creators to exercise control over the dissemination of their works. But let them advocate for their own interests; I'll advocate for the interests of the public to distribute, comment on, and remix their own culture. The compromise you suggest, where copyright is enforced only for six months, is a compromise I accept. But that's a long way from the current system of copyright in perpetuity. It's your position of infinite copyright that has not ever been defended except as a naked money-grab by those who have inherited revenues from popular works.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Obviously. The means of transmission, the medium of expression, is my mouth. Storage in your memory is not considered tangible as defined under copyright law. Further, copyright law does not prevent you from describing movie scenes orally. Copyright law would prevent you from doing a public peformance in which you recited the entire movie dialog from memory, but that isn't what you want to do is it? Perhaps this line of argument is not getting leading to the conclusion you want to promote. I think you are trying to argue that laws preventing you from posting/downloading movies to/from from the internet not only impinge upon your right to free speech, but are a recent configuration that others need to defend. I don't think you can get there this way. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
What if I want to talk about The Hobbit? Talk away, it's perfectly legal to talk about the Hobbit. You're only not allowed to copy the bloody thing and sell or give it to someone else who hasn't paid for it.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
What if I want to talk about The Hobbit? Go ahead and talk. People discuss the Hobbit publically all of the time. And they don't need to interfere with any of the rights defined in 17 USC 106 to do so; they can rely on the exceptions granted in 17 USC 107 through 123. Please consider the definitions in 17 USC 101 before arguing about the literal meaning of the statutes cited below.
quote: quote: Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Further, copyright law does not prevent you from describing movie scenes orally. To the contrary - people can be (and have been) sued for their performances of a movie scene or song when those were not authorized by the original rights holders. Indeed, there's an entire movie about it. Now, it's generally the case that these performances evade scrutiny by the sheer volume of them and their general lack of redeeming value. But that doesn't mean they're not prohibited by law. There's an entire TV show about a high school choral group that performs pop hits, but completely unstated in the show is the fact that high schools are regularly sued for doing exactly this - performing copyrighted music without the expensive permission of rights holders. As evidenced by the fact that you never, ever hear it on TV, a group of parents singing the Birthday Song violates copyright law every time it happens; I can think of no better example of how copyright law insanity infringes on our rights to experience, adapt, comment on, and remix our own culture.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Talk away, it's perfectly legal to talk about the Hobbit. While it's likely that I could get away with it, it's actually not legal to talk about Hobbits without the written permission of the Tolkien estate.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
The compromise you suggest, where copyright is enforced only for six months, I didn't suggest anything like six months. I suggested something between the 14 and 28 years that were established 200 years ago at the founding of this country and which are actually much older than even that. I did pointeout that your own proposal didn't accomodate even a few months. My only point is that the burden is on you to show why copyright law as proposed 200 years ago isn't acceptable. I don't have to defend DRM, SOPA or PIPA, or DVD region, or import/export laws, or any other new fangled stuff because I am not arguing in favor of any of those. As best as I can tell nobody else here is either.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
My only point is that the burden is on you to show why copyright law as proposed 200 years ago isn't acceptable. The burden is not on me. The burden is on someone, like you, who believes that it's reasonable to use the courts to force someone to pay you money because they moved their body in a certain way.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
While it's likely that I could get away with it, it's actually not legal to talk about Hobbits without the written permission of the Tolkien estate. Again, don't believe everything that the copyright holder says. There are no legal obstacles to talking about Hobbits that are not trivially easy to avoid. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Offs, it's perfectly legal to talk about the Hobbit. I wouldn't try performing it on a stage though.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
The burden is not on me. The burden is on someone, like you, who believes that it's reasonable to use the courts to force someone to pay you money because they moved their body in a certain way. Since I don't hold the opinon that such a use is reasonable, I'll take it that your point is without substance. Perhaps you should ask me my impression instead of assigning me positions and then attacking them. In my opinion, the law suit is meritless, with Beyonce's usage, even if she did actually copy the material, being excused under 17 USC 107. One thing to note about copyright protection that differs from patent protetion is that independent recreation is NOT infringement under copyright law. A plaintiff would have to show that not only was the Beyonce's material identical in some way protected by copyright law, but that Beyonce copied the material from the plaintiff as oppposed to anywhere else. Further, Beyonce could defend by showing that the plaintiff's material was not original, or that her copying was de minimis, or excused under fair use. Perhaps we can return to you showing why copyright law from 200 years ago is unfair? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined:
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Again, don't believe everything that the copyright holder says. It's not whether I believe it, it's whether the courts do. And the blame lies with a system that treats a copyright holder's absurd assertions as reasonable on their face.
There are no legal obstacles to talking about Hobbits that are not trivially easy to avoid. I shouldn't have to avoid anything, when Hobbits are as much a part of my culture as they are of Tolkien's. It should be no more a matter for the law that TSR wanted to use Hobbits in a game than it was when Tolkien wanted to use elves and goblins in a book. He didn't invent those things; he remixed them out of the public domain of culture. And, in turn, hobbits need to enter that public domain so that others can remix them. Nobody gets permanent ownership of an idea; even temporary ownership is a courtesy that we extend, ostensibly to promote the arts and sciences. Yet a vast treasure trove of such art was created long before the notion of that courtesy was ever considered. It's not necessary for the creation of art.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Oh, so I have free speech, just as long as nobody is around to hear it?
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined:
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Since I don't hold the opinon that such a use is reasonable Bullshit. Are you, or are you not, defending a system under which choreography can be copyrighted? Did this
quote: appear in your Message 140 without your knowledge? If so, please inform Percy that the board has been hacked again and someone is posting under your name without your permission.
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