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Author | Topic: SOPA/PIPA and 'Intellectual Property' | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
But again, in a world where you're under no obligation to support an artist's work unless you enjoy it, why would anyone pay for a movie unless they wanted to support the artist? Why wouldn't you just go to the free theaters, if patronizing an artist was meaningless to you? In such a world, there would be no obligation to pay for the movie even if you did enjoy it. I, in particular, would never, ever decide to pay Mel Gibson a single penny regardless of how good his movie is. I think the number of people who would pay extra money to make sure the artists got their cut, when there is no stigma attached with going to the cheaper theater would be exceedingly small and possibly zero. I thought you were trying to convince me otherwise. Your description does sound a bit like the world Lennon sings about in "Imagine" though.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
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Perdition Member (Idle past 3263 days) Posts: 1593 From: Wisconsin Joined: |
The amount people are willing to pay does not change when the supply changes; only the amount that they actually pay changes. Speaking of unsubstantiated assertions. In my sandwich analogy, I'm not willing to pay very much for something I know I can go down the street and get for a good price, or even go home and make for myself. However, if I were in the desert and the sandwich were all that was keeping me alive, I'd probably be willing to give up just about anything for the sandwich. You can't say that in my normal life, here in a semi-populous city in the Midwest of America that'd I'd be willing to give up just about anything for such a common commodity. If I know I can get it a little further down the road, the amount I'm willing to pay is dramatically lower than if it could be the last opportunity for the foreseeable future.
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Perdition Member (Idle past 3263 days) Posts: 1593 From: Wisconsin Joined: |
Because no one ever puts money in the hat of a street performer... Yeah, I forgot about all those amazing street performers that people are climbing over themselves to pay for the performances by, as opposed to, I don't know, feeling empathy for a fellow human being who's down on his luck. But even if people were paying for the performance itself, sit and watch one of those street performers. What percentage do you think actually pay anything, and what do you think the average amount paid is?
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1492 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
In such a world, there would be no obligation to pay for the movie even if you did enjoy it. I, in particular, would never, ever decide to pay Mel Gibson a single penny regardless of how good his movie is. And that's fine. Why should you be forced to? The obligation I was speaking of was an ethical one, not a legal one. If you don't feel it, then you don't feel it. But the abundant evidence is that a lot of people feel it in respects that have nothing to do with the law. Louis CK, etc.
I thought you were trying to convince me otherwise. I'm not under any obligation to convince you of anything. You're the one under the obligation to explain why people don't want to patronize artists, when we can look around the world as it exists now and see that, given the ease of piracy now, payments by audiences to artists are overwhelmingly a voluntary expression of support and patronage. There's nothing hypothetical about what people would do in a world of easy piracy because we live in a world of easy piracy, and artists get paid. Good artists get paid quite a bit. And where the rights-restrictive "pay-for-play" model doesn't really work - painting, sculpture, etc - there's public funding of the arts.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1492 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I don't find this reply responsive. If you're just going to ignore points, we're done here.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2320 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined:
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Well, looks like Techdirt did a nice little report on the state of things:
The Sky Is Rising! | Techdirt Conclusion:
quote:
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nwr Member Posts: 6409 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Well, looks like Techdirt did a nice little report on the state of things
That nicely summarizes my view. IP law should be such as to encourage creativity and innovation. It should not be used to protect failing industries. This might require a lot of change in how things are done. We should welcome that change. In many ways, new technologies have been a boon to the creative. But often IP law has been inhibiting some of the new forms of innovation. We need to change direction. On films - yes, if we want to have blockbuster movies, then we need some protection for the industry, though not necessarily what we currently have. Personally, I am not a big fan of those expensive productions, but I don't impose my preferences on others. I do want it to be easier for independent video creators. Oh, and patenting of software should end. Copyright and license protection should be sufficient.Jesus was a liberal hippie
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Crashfrog,
I've posted any number of responses to your messages which you have not even acknowledged, let alone responded to. Yet, somehow it's somehow some kind of injustice that I don't find one or more of your points important enough to respond to. Yeah, we're done.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
There's nothing hypothetical about what people would do in a world of easy piracy because we live in a world of easy piracy, and artists get paid. Good artists get paid quite a bit. And where the rights-restrictive "pay-for-play" model doesn't really work - painting, sculpture, etc - there's public funding of the arts. We don't live in a world where people can go to the movie theater to see LW 17 on the big screen without some segment of the MPAA getting their cut. There is no evidence that substantial number of theaters would elect to pay out some of their ticket proceeds to the movie studios if they did not have to do so.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
we can look around the world as it exists now and see that, given the ease of piracy now, payments by audiences to artists are overwhelmingly a voluntary expression of support and patronage. I don't think that's true. I don't think there's that many people who know how to pirate well. I think there's still plenty of people who are paying for stuff becuase they don't have the option not to (while still getting the stuff). I also think that those people, when given the option, will take the stuff and not pay for it. That would lead to a loss of payments by audiences to artists that we are not at now.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2320 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes:
Really? It's as easy as installing one program on your PC, going to a website, use a search function like google, and clicking on a link. You can't tell me there are people who are to supid for that (well, ok, there might be some people who are, but for the overwhelming majority, this shouldn't pose a great challenge at all). Or even if they're not too aware of all this, there's surely someone in their vicinity who is. It would then becomes as easy as clicking on a bookmark, performing the search and clicking the link. If you're incapable of doing that, well, why the fuck do you have a PC to begin with?
I don't think that's true. I don't think there's that many people who know how to pirate well.
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Jon Inactive Member |
Really? It's as easy as installing one program on your PC, going to a website, use a search function like google, and clicking on a link. You can't tell me there are people who are to supid for that (well, ok, there might be some people who are, but for the overwhelming majority, this shouldn't pose a great challenge at all). Or even if they're not too aware of all this, there's surely someone in their vicinity who is. It would then becomes as easy as clicking on a bookmark, performing the search and clicking the link. There is more involved than you think. Perhaps the difference is related to the two countries we live in, but here, at least, pirating stuff (especially bigger things like movies) does require a little bit of computer savvy.
If you're incapable of doing that, well, why the fuck do you have a PC to begin with? For Facebook, of course. JonLove your enemies!
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2320 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
Jon writes:
Wait, what's preventing you guys from installing a bittorrent client, going to the pirate bay and clicking on "get torrent"? There's nothing that is preventing us from doing this over here. There is more involved than you think. Perhaps the difference is related to the two countries we live in, but here, at least, pirating stuff (especially bigger things like movies) does require a little bit of computer savvy. Even now that two ISP's over here have been forced by the court to block the piratebay, you can still get to it so easily, it's become really rather sad for the anti-piracy guys. They can do whatever they wish, but short from going after indivdual downloaders (something even they don't want to do), there's absolutely nothing they can do to stop anybody from downloading whatever the hell they please.
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 827 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
Wait, what's preventing you guys from installing a bittorrent client, going to the pirate bay and clicking on "get torrent"? There's nothing that is preventing us from doing this over here. It's the people who do just that who get busted. The less tech savvy idiots who think it's that simple. Not sure about the laws in The Netherlands, but it's people who share (uploaders) get busted here in the U.S., not the downloaders. But I'm not going to divulge trade secrets round these parts.... I say let the morons keep getting busted so they don't spill the beans on the tricks of the trade.Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell
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Jon Inactive Member |
Wait, what's preventing you guys from installing a bittorrent client, going to the pirate bay and clicking on "get torrent"? There's nothing that is preventing us from doing this over here. And that's more difficult than you might think. JonLove your enemies!
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