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Author | Topic: Anti-Science bill in Indiana..... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
My senator likes to send out surveys asking about our views on various issues like should churches pay property taxes, etc.
Since my senator voted for SB 89, I'm assuming his survey got more yeses or don't cares than no's. I answered no, BTW. Since the bill is now headed for the House, I will write a letter to my representative to ask him not to pass the bill. I will also write a letter to our Governor to encourage him not to pass the bill into law. The bill says "may", but that is only for the school system, not the student. As I read it, if the school system decides to teach it then the student must participate. I don't see that parents or students have the option to not learn about religion or other religions. So any suggestions for wording a very concise and convincing letter to try and show them that SB89 is not a good idea? Should I send the same letter to both politicians? Graphics courtesy of Free SB 89 Graphics Edited by purpledawn, : Added link
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
The point of my post was that, as a resident of Indiana, I still have another chance to write to my representative in the House and to the Governor to try and spark some common sense.
I asked for ideas to compose a convincing letter. This is one letter that was written before the Senate vote. State Senate Ltr Here is wording on a petition. SAY NO TO Indiana Senate Bill 0089! Here is one that seems to be in favor of the bill. It might give us an idea of the thoughts from the other side. Academic Freedom Bill Here is a petition to support creationism curriculum. Support Creationist Curriculum in Indiana's Public Schools These articles provide some quotes from Sen. Kruse who authored the bill.
Opponents wonder if suit versus state will follow (8th one down)
Amended creation teaching bill passes Ind. Senate Indiana Senate backs teaching creationism in public schools The letters and petitions being written so far seem to address the U.S. Supreme Court ruling and that religion doesn't belong in a science class. These letters don't seem to be making a difference. Sen. Kruse feels that since there is a different Supreme Court, creationism might win out in a lawsuit. I feel that this thought from the creationist petition may be the emotional point being played.
This is a petition to show support of Senate Bill 89. It is very important that our children in public schools are afforded the same advantages as those at private schools when it comes to learning about the origin of life, which is the basis of all sciences, proven or otherwise. Here is a quote from Sen. Kruse from the 3rd article above:
The proposal doesn't require any school district to teach creationism and allows them to continue with their current science classes, Kruse said. "This does not do away with the teaching of evolution," he said. "This provides another alternative to evolution so our children are being exposed to more than one view, which I think is healthy for them." My rep is a doctor and a Christian (Methodist). Since the school vouchers were deemed constitutional, maybe the moderates feel this is a way for public schools to compete.
Editorials: Do schools really need this now? Facts don't seem to be working to break the spell. We need a way to push the emotional button just like the creationists are. Their concern is supposedly the children, but they seem to be missing the point that parents decide what their children are exposed to. I realize there is probably a hidden agenda, but trying to address that won't do much good in a letter to persuade. So anyone have any good angles to play up in a letter to persuade my rep and the Governor this isn't good for the children and will anger parents?
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
I figure I need a different angle since facts aren't working. I think one would have to argue from a Christian angle to make any dent. I'm only one letter, but if I can create a spark who knows.
Since my rep is or was also an MD, I didn't know if there was anything that might impact his profession. Here are a few comments from our local newspaper in the opinion section today. This gentleman said only six were listed of the hundreds of religions and concluded with:
Never mind the constitutionality. I'm just wondering if they'll have any time to teach science in science class. Apparently a teacher had been fired for discussing creation science in his chemistry class. This gentleman feels:
If school boards allowed the teaching of creation science, any student, regardless of relgion, could pass the class by demonstrating that they understood what was taught. That's not establishing religion in America. ... More than 50 percent of our school's students (1,000-plus) petitioned for creation science inclusion in the curriculum. ...If the peopl eof Indiana want something from their government, it is the government's duty to represent its people. This gentleman brings up Georges Lemaitre, a Belgian physicist and cosmologist, and Roman Catholic Priest.
One day after celebrating Mass, his con-celebrant asked him how, as a devout Christian, he could subscribe to such non-literal biblical viewpoints. Lemaitre replied: "The Bible teaches you as much about science as a quadratic equation teaches you about God. Both are pathways to the same truth." Those are some pieces from the opinion page. Other than a means to put religion in front of children, I don't understand why creation science needs to be brought into a science class? Couldn't I also argue that it is the job of the religious institution to teach origin of life per their belief? Why the school system?
quote: The second gentleman I quoted stated that they petitioned the school corporation in 2000 to present the evidence in support of special creation in science classes alongside evolution. It there one piece of supposed evidence for special creation that alongside evolution would look ridiculous to a physician?
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
So her addition turned it into a comparative religion class that takes place in the science class. That might be another angle. Why turn science class or any other class into a comparative religion class when students can already take a comparative religion class to compare religions and their views on various subjects.
Do we really want to start comparing a religious view of history in history class or a religious view of health in health class?
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:Not really the point of what I was saying, but I do need to make sure I'm not sparking them to do just that. Edited by purpledawn, : Wrong Avatar
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
How's this for a opener to the letter?
As a Christian, I am deeply disappointed that our Senate thought it was wise to ignore a U.S. Supreme Court ruling and made allowance for a Christian Fundamentalist belief to be taught in our science classes. On top of that, to make this bill look less intolerant of other religious beliefs, various religious beliefs concerning origins of life are to be taught. How dare they expose our Christian children to potential spiritual crisis and family conflict. Obviously spiritual crisis is something that parents will have to clean up, not the government. Christians should not want to cause family conflicts. Another thought concerns court costs. Wouldn't tax payers be paying for that should it happen? Not a good use of our money. Are fundamentalist and creationists in the minority among Christians? Is faith healing more a fundamentalist belief?Would a doctor want that taught in health class along with healing beliefs from other religions?
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
The quote box holds what I've written so far. The rest are just thoughts. My rep is an MD and a Methodist.
quote:I saw that approach in a letter that was sent before the vote. My guess is that any school that entertains the idea of teaching creation science, would probably address the Christian loyalties of their science teacher(s). Supposedly the school system would still have a choice on whether to teach creation science or not. We start seeing good science teachers railroaded out and creationist teachers come in, we can probably guess what the school is planning.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
We have a Christian who also feels that creation should not be taught in the science class since it is a belief, but..
What we do need to do is treat macroevolution (one species evolving from another) as a science and not the belief system as it is now taught in science class. If it were evaluated using the scientific method it would be rejected. The second is also a Christian, but he is not for the bill and refers to an earlier guest column written on 1 Feb.
Creationists have been forced to accept micro-evolution. bacteria evolve before our eyes. The pastor does not think that macro-evolution explains the origins of life. (That's the theory that two different species have a common ancestor.) How does the reverend and his biology teachers explain the fact that the genetic blueprint of the chimpanzee and humans are 96 percent identical? Macro-evolution seems to be the issue. Are both their definitions correct? I did a search for macro-evolution to try and get an understanding of the issue. I found this post by Nuggin (Message 4) that gave a good idea of the difference between micro and macro. Are there any more good explanations of the difference? Any that might be of interest to a doctor?
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined:
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Information derived from religious beliefs should not be taught in core classes that are required for graduation. They should be available in elective classes.
A religious institution can present a class on comparing evolution with creation. Why put it in the public school system? It is the job of the religious institutions to teach their followers. In this country, people are not required to have a religion or learn about a religion or religious beliefs. It is a choice. When we stuff it into required classes, it is no longer a choice. If Creationists want to battle over TOE, then do it in the adult world. Don't make our children the pawns in an adult battle. Other than the need to recruit, I see no reason for anything based on a religious belief to be presented in public schools in required classes. That is the job of their chosen religious institution. Our public schools teach the concensus on issues to date. It is not the place to present all sides of every issue. There isn't time. A certain amount of information needs to be presented in a specific amount of time. There's no time for debate. Today, with the internet, students can look up all sides of an issue whenever they want and discuss it with their parents, friends, or debate forums. Why the need for creation science to be taught along side TOE in a public school setting instead of a religious institution?
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
How is this so far? Any suggestions on wording or punctuation is welcome.
As a Christian, I am deeply disappointed that our Senate thought it was wise to ignore a U.S. Supreme Court ruling and made allowance for a Christian Fundamentalist belief to be taught in our science classes. On top of that, to make this bill look less intolerant of other religious beliefs, various religious beliefs concerning origins of life are to be taught.
The Pilgrims came to this country to be able to practice their religion freely and not be forced into a specific belief system. If we allow science based on a religious belief to be taught in a core course instead of an elective course, we are forcing children to learn those beliefs. I learned in school that in this country, people are not required to have a religion or learn about a religion or religious beliefs. They are free to believe or not believe as they choose. Has that changed? The purpose of science education is to teach the leading ideas of science and this includes the theory of evolution which explains the diversity of life, not the origin of life. Creation science is not a leading idea of science, is based on a religious belief, and therefore has no place in a required class.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
How about this instead?
In 1791, the Bill of Rights was ratified and the very first one protects our freedom of religion. If we allow science based on a religious belief to be taught in a core course instead of an elective course, we are forcing children to learn those beliefs and taking away their freedom to choose. Historically in our country, Christianity hasn't always been accommodating when other religions wish to freely practice their own religions or when people choose not to practice a religion. Jesus did not teach his disciples to force religion onto others or force others to listen to religious beliefs.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:Nit pick all you want. That is a much better way to say it. Thanks
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
I think I had minority in one work through, but apparently lost it before posting. How's this?
The purpose of science education is to teach the leading ideas of science and this includes the theory of evolution which explains the diversity of life, not the origin of life. Creation science is not a leading idea of science, but is a minority religious belief and therefore has no place in a required class. I could also go with: Creation science is not a leading idea of science; and it isn't a leading belief of Christianity. Therefore, it has no place in a required class.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
My strategy is to try and counter some of the reasons that Sen. Kruse gave for promoting the bill. Message 23
The Senators have heard the science and have heard the legal issues and the House will hear the same. Sadly, the majority chose to ignore the information. Notice that some districts are already teaching creationism in science class. So one ruse is to give these districts legal cover.
1 Feb 2012 Indianapolis Star, Indiana Kruse said he is aware of the precedent but isn't sure it would survive today. "This is a different Supreme Court," he said. "This Supreme Court could rule differently." Sen. Tim Skinner, D-Terre Haute, asked whether Indiana is ready for the lengthy legal battle that could follow. "If we get sued," he asked, "who is going to pay for the lawsuit?" The answer to Skinner's question might help explain why Kruse felt the need to put creationism into state law. Technically, a school district could teach creationism now -- and some do. "As far as I know," said Mount Vernon Community School Corporation Superintendent William Riggs, "we've always been allowed to do that." Riggs said Mount Vernon High School's biology class already teaches creationism alongside evolution. "We've been doing this for years." Riggs said the school teaches them as "two theories of the origins of life" and said that in literature classes students often learn about the Bible and the Quran. "The idea is to get kids to think." But districts such as Mount Vernon potentially open themselves up to costly lawsuits. Kruse's bill gives those districts and any other that choose to teach creationism some legal cover -- and likely would draw the state into their defense. Indianapolis (AP) 31 Jan 2012 The proposal doesn't require any school district to teach creationism and allows them to continue with their current science classes, Kruse said. "This does not do away with the teaching of evolution," he said. "This provides another alternative to evolution so our children are being exposed to more than one view, which I think is healthy for them." I guess I'm trying to impress upon my rep that core classes are not the place to present religious views. Schools doing this should be told to use elective classes for this exposure. I'd also like to get the point across that the school system isn't about throwing various views on subjects at our children and the children decide what to accept. They learn the standard of the times and graduate. I haven't worked on wording for that yet. I also want to stress that the religious institutions are there to teach religious beliefs and they can teach creationism all they want. There is no need for religious teachings to be in the public school system other than a means to push beliefs. Why can't they teach creationism next to evolution in their religious institutions? They can open it up to the town.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Here's what I have so far. I'm trying to keep this to one page. Much more than that and they may not read it through.
As a Christian, I am deeply disappointed that our Senate thought it was wise to ignore a U.S. Supreme Court ruling and made allowance for a Christian Fundamentalist belief to be taught in our science classes. On top of that, to make this bill look less intolerant of other religious beliefs, various religious beliefs concerning origins of life are to be taught. In 1791, the Bill of Rights was ratified and the very first one protects our freedom of religion. If we allow a religious belief to be presented as science in a core course instead of an elective course, we are forcing children to learn those beliefs and taking away their freedom to choose not to learn about other religions. Historically in our country, Christianity hasn't always been accommodating when other religions wish to freely practice or not practice a religion. We don't need unnecessary conflict in the classrooms. Jesus did not teach his disciples to force religion onto others or force others to listen to religious beliefs. The purpose of science education is to teach the leading ideas of science and this includes the theory of evolution which explains the diversity of life, not the origin of life. Creation science is not a leading idea of science, but is a minority religious belief and therefore has no place in a required class. Senator Kruse was quoted in the February 1, 2012, Indianapolis Star as saying, "I believe in creation," Kruse said, "and I believe it deserves to be taught in our public schools." The first four tenets of Scientific Creationism: The physical universe of space, time, matter and energy has not always existed, but was supernaturally created by a transcendent personal Creator who alone has existed from eternity.The phenomenon of biological life did not develop by natural processes from inanimate systems but was specially and supernaturally created by the Creator. Each of the major kinds of plants and animals was created functionally complete from the beginning and did not evolve from some other kind of organism. Changes in basic kinds since their first creation are limited to "horizontal" changes (variations) within the kinds, or "downward" changes (e.g., harmful mutations, extinctions). The first human beings did not evolve from an animal ancestry, but were specially created in fully human form from the start. Furthermore, the "spiritual" nature of man (self-image, moral consciousness, abstract reasoning, language, will, religious nature, etc.) is itself a supernaturally created entity distinct from mere biological life. These are religious views, not science. Required core classes are not the place to present religious views. Schools that are presenting religious views in core classes should be asked to stop and use elective classes only.
I have room for a witty summary or sign off. Still working on that. How's it look so far? Should I include the link to the tenets?
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