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Author Topic:   The Awesome Obama Thread II
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 1 of 397 (651465)
02-07-2012 4:26 PM


Subtitled: Bush Jr.'s Third Term in Office
xongsmith writes:
The United States of America is officially completely DEAD now. We can all go home and shake our heads at an experiment only 234 years old with apparently wonderful lofty ideals that has now succumbed finally to the forces of greed & viciousness. The final nail in the coffin was delivered by none other than that slimy insidious double agent for the Filthy Rich running the United States, Barack Obama.
What xongsmith said.

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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(1)
Message 2 of 397 (651466)
02-07-2012 4:31 PM


continued from The Awesome Republican Primary Thread
Rahvin writes:
He [Obama] didn't submit his own plan, he didn't veto plans that didn't go far enough.
CF writes:
Jesus Christ, why would he veto a plan that didn't go far enough? That makes no fucking sense unless your goal, like Dronester, isn't to actually do anything in government to help people's lives, it's to live out a fantasy of proxy martyrdom watching the President die on hill after hill.
You mean like stopping child torture? Is that what you mean by government helping people's lives? Well, perhaps in your parent's household there were frequent child beatings (I wonder why) and you consider that to be "normal". But I come from a family who believes that child torture is kind'a a bad thing. And thus, this is one hill I would like Obama to die on.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 3 of 397 (651467)
02-07-2012 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by dronestar
02-07-2012 4:26 PM


Sorry he didn't close diplomatic ties with Iraq, Dronester, but you need to get over that.
I suppose Elizabeth Warren's Consumer Finance Protection Bureau is just another part of his sneaky plan, right, guys? I mean, obviously the only way a progressive Presidency could ever be considered "successful" is if it took such a principled stand that it never succeeded in anything at all.
I can't wait until the first Kucinich Administration, where his first official act will be to commit suicide. That'll be just the sort of martyrdom flameout that you Firebaggers are so desperate for, right? And then when Republicans outlaw elections and plunge us into a thousand years of darkness, you'll march into the concentration camps heads held high, knowing that your guy stood so strongly for principle that he so highly and principled-ly refused to accomplish anything at all.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 4 of 397 (651468)
02-07-2012 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by dronestar
02-07-2012 4:31 PM


Re: continued from The Awesome Republican Primary Thread
You mean like stopping child torture? Is that what you mean by government helping people's lives?
Stopping the torture of children is just one of the ways that Obama has used the government to improve people's lives, yes. I'm specifically referring to ending the practice of torturing children with diseases by not paying for them to be treated.
And thus, this is one hill I would like Obama to die on.
Hrm, strange. If you were really opposed to child torture, wouldn't you want Obama to succeed in stopping it?

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 Message 5 by dronestar, posted 02-07-2012 4:42 PM crashfrog has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 5 of 397 (651469)
02-07-2012 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by crashfrog
02-07-2012 4:34 PM


Re: continued from The Awesome Republican Primary Thread
Crash writes:
I'm specifically referring to ending the practice of torturing children with diseases by not paying for them to be treated.
Hmm, strange. You really believe that the usa government pays/acts to infect children with torturous diseases like it pays/acts to torture children?
Wow. Great analogy Pops.

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Perdition
Member (Idle past 3238 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


(1)
Message 6 of 397 (651470)
02-07-2012 4:46 PM


Small Steps
I can understand the liberal outrage that Obama didn't do everything that they wanted. However, we live in the real world. He has to work within the guidelines of the constitution, which includes letting the legislature legislate.
I'm a bit more pragmatic. A small step in the right direction (the healthcare bill) is better than overreaching for the whole shebang, only to end up with nothing to show for it (at best) or a backlash that takes us further from the goal (at worst).
The fact is, we live in a country with differing views, and those differing views have just as much clout as ours do, meaning the ultimate solution to any problem is going to come from somewhere between our opposing views.
I think Obama has done a very good job, considering the hand he was dealt at the time he was elected. I'm also of the opinion that the second term of a presidency is usually a bit more effective or at least outspoken because they no longer have the specter of reelection hanging over every decision, combined with the fact that they now have experience in the position.
Being president is a very difficult job. I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to step in on day one and know exactly how to do everything they need to do to pass their agenda.

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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(1)
Message 7 of 397 (651471)
02-07-2012 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Perdition
02-07-2012 4:46 PM


Re: Small Steps
Perd writes:
The fact is, we live in a country with differing views,
At the moment, it seems like just two views: 1%ers and 99%ers. Which does Obama serve?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Perdition, posted 02-07-2012 4:46 PM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 12 by kjsimons, posted 02-07-2012 5:19 PM dronestar has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 8 of 397 (651475)
02-07-2012 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by dronestar
02-07-2012 4:42 PM


Re: continued from The Awesome Republican Primary Thread
You really believe that the usa government pays/acts to infect children with torturous diseases like it pays/acts to torture children?
Sure, in that the government doesn't do either of those things.

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 9 of 397 (651477)
02-07-2012 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by dronestar
02-07-2012 4:49 PM


An Infomercial Conspirator
Granted, it was an infomercial and granted the author, Larry Edelson,
is selling something. My question was, is there any truth to it?
Edelson writes:
By RAISING the value of the Chinese yuan, Washington and China will automatically CRUSH the value of the U.S. dollar ... So Washington can repay its otherwise unpayable debts with cheaper dollars!...When the dust settles, the United States will be little more than just another name on the long list of once-proud countries that squandered their wealth ... that were ultimately driven to their knees and forced to submit to the nations that took their places.
While Edelson says his argument is not based on political ideology, he blames Obama, Geitner,and Bernanke for essentially "selling us out" to the Chinese financiers.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 10 of 397 (651479)
02-07-2012 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by dronestar
02-07-2012 4:49 PM


Re: Small Steps
Which does Obama serve?
Well, one way to find out would be to ask the 1%. You know, since there's less of them and therefore it's easier to ask:
quote:
No offense to Middle America, but if someone went to Columbia or Wharton, [even if] their company is a fumbling, mismanaged bank, why should they all of a sudden be paid the same as the guy down the block who delivers restaurant supplies for Sysco out of a huge, shiny truck?"
I’m not giving to charity this year! one hedge-fund analyst shouts into the phone, when I ask about Obama’s planned tax increases. When people ask me for money, I tell them, ‘If you want me to give you money, send a letter to my senator asking for my taxes to be lowered.’ I feel so much less generous right now. If I have to adopt twenty poor families, I want a thank-you note and an update on their lives. At least Sally Struthers gives you an update.
Their anger takes many forms: There is rage at Obama for pushing to raise taxes (The government wants me to be a slave! says one hedge-fund analyst); rage at the masses who don’t understand that Wall Street’s high salaries fund New York’s budget (We’re fucked, says a former Lehman equities analyst, referring to the city); rage at the people who don’t get that Wall Street enables much of the rest of the economy to function (JPMorgan and all these guys should go on strikesee what happens to the country without Wall Street, says another hedge-funder).
http://nymag.com/news/businessfinance/56151/index1.html
Or read their special rich-people magazines:
quote:
Barack Obama is the most antibusiness president in a generation, perhaps in American history....The President continues to push for stimulus even though hundreds of billions of dollars in such funds seem to have done little. The unemployment rate when Obama took office in January 2009 was 7.7%; now it is 9.5%. Yet he wants to spend even more and is determined to foist the entire bill on Americans making $250,000 a year or more. The rich, Obama insists, aren't paying their "fair share." This by itself seems odd given that the top 1% of Americans pay 40% of all federal income taxes; the next 9% of income earners pay another 30%. So the top 10% pays 70% of the taxes; the bottom 40% pays close to nothing. This does indeed seem unfair--to the rich.
Theories abound to explain the President's goals and actions. Critics in the business community--including some Obama voters who now have buyer's remorse--tend to focus on two main themes. The first is that Obama is clueless about business. The second is that Obama is a socialist--not an out-and-out Marxist, but something of a European-style socialist, with a penchant for leveling and government redistribution.
It may seem incredible to suggest that the anticolonial ideology of Barack Obama Sr. is espoused by his son, the President of the United States. That is what I am saying.
http://www.forbes.com/...rises-obama-business-problem_3.html
Wall Street sure as hell doesn't think that Obama is the "Wall Street" candidate. Why the hell should we?
Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.

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Perdition
Member (Idle past 3238 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 11 of 397 (651480)
02-07-2012 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by dronestar
02-07-2012 4:49 PM


Re: Small Steps
At the moment, it seems like just two views: 1%ers and 99%ers. Which does Obama serve?
From what I can tell, he supports the 99%. Most of the Republicans support the 1%. That makes it difficult to get anything that would actually help the 99% through the Republican controlled House as well as the Republican minority dominated Senate.

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kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 12 of 397 (651481)
02-07-2012 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by dronestar
02-07-2012 4:49 PM


Re: Small Steps
Well since he was pushing through a universal healthcare program, that appears to serve the 99%ers more than the 1%ers. Now really, is there any viable Republican canidate that isn't mostly only serving the 1%ers?

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 13 of 397 (651482)
02-07-2012 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Phat
02-07-2012 5:15 PM


Re: An Infomercial Conspirator
Phat, you well know that the "wealth" of the United States is in the natural resources within our borders and the creative potential of the people who here reside.
How does a fluctuation in the Yuan or the dollar rob us of either? When we make interest payments on Chinese-owned US debt, we're just sending them money, not resources or people. How is our wealth in any way "squandered"?

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 14 of 397 (651485)
02-07-2012 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by crashfrog
02-07-2012 5:18 PM


Re: Small Steps
crashfrog writes:
Wall Street sure as hell doesn't think that Obama is the "Wall Street" candidate. Why the hell should we?
Because even if he isnt, its already too late for the average citizen to recover.
At least Obama still has the 99% on his side. The tricky part is deciding whether to shoot the horse that pulls us (the 1%) in order to get food for today or let the horse drag us through hell (of reduced wages and standard of living, in order to get out of debt) for the longterm good of everyone.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 15 of 397 (651486)
02-07-2012 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by crashfrog
02-07-2012 5:20 PM


Re: An Infomercial Conspirator
crash writes:
When we make interest payments on Chinese-owned US debt, we're just sending them money, not resources or people. How is our wealth in any way "squandered"?
Because the real value of the dollar will be forced to come out, and we essentially wont have as much purchasing power as we used to have...all the while working ever harder.
Im not gonna blame Obama...thats for sure. Romney would make things even harder for the 99%.

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