Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,821 Year: 3,078/9,624 Month: 923/1,588 Week: 106/223 Day: 4/13 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   "If I descended from an ape, how come apes are still here?"
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 121 of 286 (651536)
02-08-2012 3:24 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Perdition
02-07-2012 4:02 PM


Perdition writes:
How about this: "If we descended from apes, why are there still apes?"
"Well, if dogs descended from wolves, why are there still wolves?"
That's a good one, I'll use it. Thanks.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Perdition, posted 02-07-2012 4:02 PM Perdition has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Trixie, posted 02-08-2012 3:37 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Trixie
Member (Idle past 3706 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004


Message 122 of 286 (651539)
02-08-2012 3:37 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Tangle
02-08-2012 3:24 AM


I much prefer "If people are descended from grandparents, why are there still grandparents?". It shows the absurdity of the question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Tangle, posted 02-08-2012 3:24 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Percy, posted 02-08-2012 8:43 AM Trixie has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 123 of 286 (651553)
02-08-2012 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Trixie
02-08-2012 3:37 AM


I used to like that one better, too. It feels more direct and personal and should therefore be more effective, but when I've seen it used, including by myself, I've found that it has two problems:
  1. Creationists don't accept that their own personal ancestry has anything to do with evolution.
  2. Grandparents are the same race of people as grand kids. Wolves are a different race from dogs, and since creationists acknowledge this it helps it work better.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Trixie, posted 02-08-2012 3:37 AM Trixie has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Tangle, posted 02-08-2012 10:00 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 124 of 286 (651560)
02-08-2012 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Percy
02-08-2012 8:43 AM


My thoughts too. But I'll use both.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Percy, posted 02-08-2012 8:43 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9975
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 125 of 286 (651577)
02-08-2012 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by amp1022
02-07-2012 8:30 PM


Really? Wow! I had no idea that creationists had waved the white flag.
Given the complete lack of scientific research coming from creationists it would seem that they have waved the white flag where the science is concerned. They know that they can not win the scientific argument. They lost a long time ago. The only argument they are trying to win now is a political one where they use lies and misrepresentation to try and convince an audience that does not understand the science.
Well thanks for letting me know that THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION (as you put it) is a proven FACT... the theory is a fact.
Evolution is both a theory and a fact. The theory of evolution explains the facts of evolution. Using the examples above, it is a fact that modern wolves, chihuahuas, and great danes all share a common ancestor that most resembled modern wolves. This is a fact of evolution. The theory of evolution explains why all three modern canid groups are different from each other which is through the proposed mechanisms of evolution (i.e. descent with modification through mutation and selection).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by amp1022, posted 02-07-2012 8:30 PM amp1022 has not replied

  
jrchamblee
Junior Member (Idle past 4363 days)
Posts: 14
Joined: 02-08-2012


Message 126 of 286 (651653)
02-08-2012 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tangle
10-12-2011 5:37 AM


you did not descend from an ape ,man was created by gods, apes were made different,but they learned just enough to stay alive, that's why they are still here

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tangle, posted 10-12-2011 5:37 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Coyote, posted 02-08-2012 10:45 PM jrchamblee has not replied
 Message 128 by Evlreala, posted 02-08-2012 10:53 PM jrchamblee has not replied
 Message 129 by Tangle, posted 02-09-2012 3:19 AM jrchamblee has not replied
 Message 130 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-09-2012 8:32 AM jrchamblee has not replied
 Message 132 by RAZD, posted 02-11-2012 7:35 PM jrchamblee has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2107 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 127 of 286 (651663)
02-08-2012 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by jrchamblee
02-08-2012 9:28 PM


Evidence ??
you did not descend from an ape ,man was created by gods, apes were made different,but they learned just enough to stay alive, that's why they are still here
Do you have any evidence to support that belief?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by jrchamblee, posted 02-08-2012 9:28 PM jrchamblee has not replied

  
Evlreala
Member (Idle past 3076 days)
Posts: 88
From: Portland, OR United States of America
Joined: 08-12-2009


(4)
Message 128 of 286 (651664)
02-08-2012 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by jrchamblee
02-08-2012 9:28 PM


Once again, humans -are- apes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by jrchamblee, posted 02-08-2012 9:28 PM jrchamblee has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 129 of 286 (651670)
02-09-2012 3:19 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by jrchamblee
02-08-2012 9:28 PM


you did not descend from an ape ,man was created by gods, apes were made different,but they learned just enough to stay alive, that's why they are still here
Did you read the last version of the explanation at Message 95?
Edited by Tangle, : Learning message linking......

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by jrchamblee, posted 02-08-2012 9:28 PM jrchamblee has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 130 of 286 (651678)
02-09-2012 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by jrchamblee
02-08-2012 9:28 PM


you did not descend from an ape ,man was created by gods, apes were made different,but they learned just enough to stay alive, that's why they are still here
The tale is told that when The Biggest Donkey Of All made the universe, he wept.
And then he spoke as follows: "The clay of the earth is truth, for who will say otherwise?"
"But the water of my tears is falsehood, and in falsehood it will abide."
"For the evolutionists will tell the truth, but the creationists will speak falsehood."
"And behold, the number of the creationists shall be very many, because my tears shall be very many, and they shall be nourished by the water of my tears."
"And fuck them, for they are idiots."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by jrchamblee, posted 02-08-2012 9:28 PM jrchamblee has not replied

  
glowby
Member
Posts: 75
From: Fox River Grove, IL
Joined: 05-29-2010


(1)
Message 131 of 286 (651779)
02-10-2012 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by amp1022
02-07-2012 12:31 PM


You convinced an uneducated mother that she is related to monkeys?
She's not uneducated. She has a B.A. degree.
I didn't say she was completely convinced - only that she seemed to find that my description of common descent was stated in a clear and somewhat entertaining way.
That is your argument?
I wasn't arguing anything. I was describing a method for describing common descent that I found very useful.
I am impressed really, that you actually had the nerve to try to brag about confusing the hell out of a woman...
How is finding a satisfactory way to describe something technical bragging? My impression was that it very much removed some of her confusion.
...who was probably perfectly content believing there was a loving caring God out there looking out for her and her children.
She didn't seem to think our discussion had any bearing of God's love for her, or her love for Him. When I described her as "very religious", I didn't mean to imply she was a fundamentlist nutcase. She loves God and Jesus a lot, and worships them day and night.
Whether it is true or not, do you inform a child that he/she can develop a brain tumor at any time and die?
No. The topic was common descent.
BTW amp, your sig kinda cracks me up...
Common sense will answer most questions that science struggles with.
Common sense says that the earth is flat and the sun goes around it. Do you subscribe to these beliefs?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by amp1022, posted 02-07-2012 12:31 PM amp1022 has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 132 of 286 (652025)
02-11-2012 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by jrchamblee
02-08-2012 9:28 PM


Hi jrchamblee, and welcome to the fray.
you did not descend from an ape ...
Correct in the same way that a dog has not descended from dogs, because they already are dogs.
... man was created by gods, apes were made different ...
but weren't apes also created by gods, and monkeys were made different?
weren't monkeys created by gods, and lemurs made different?
... apes were made different,but they learned just enough to stay alive, that's why they are still here
Bizarre.
Do you realize that some chimpanzees are smarter than some humans? Perhaps humans "learned just enough to stay alive, that's why they are still here" as well?
Of course when you apply this "theory" of how some things still exist to their capacity for cognition (does a tree think\learn?) it kind of breaks down. Badly. The theory of evolution, however, appears to provide cogent answers for the whole diversity of life as we know it.
Do you know what evolution is? Do you understand the vast amount of evidence for evolution occurring all around us? Do you know what the theory of evolution is?
Enjoy.
... as you are new here, some posting tips:
type [qs]quotes are easy[/qs] and it becomes:
quotes are easy
or type [quote]quotes are easy[/quote] and it becomes:
quote:
quotes are easy
also check out (help) links on any formatting questions when in the reply window.
For other formatting tips see Posting Tips
For a quick overview see EvC Forum Primer
If you have problems with replies see Report Discussion Problems Here 3.0

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by jrchamblee, posted 02-08-2012 9:28 PM jrchamblee has not replied

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 133 of 286 (652055)
02-12-2012 4:10 AM


Story time...
Here's one:
If we descended from a common ancestor...how come we don't know who they were?
While your all trying to answer that...i'll give a little history lesson to the lurkers everyone is always talking about.
Once upon a time there was no common ancestor. We evolved from apes. Then, a big bright light went off in one or more, scientists head..."wait a second, this isn't going to work!"
Sooooooo, the common ancestor was born...
That ends story night for tonight boys and girls...

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by PaulK, posted 02-12-2012 4:19 AM Chuck77 has replied
 Message 136 by dwise1, posted 02-12-2012 4:39 AM Chuck77 has not replied
 Message 138 by Panda, posted 02-12-2012 5:22 AM Chuck77 has not replied
 Message 139 by Trixie, posted 02-12-2012 7:25 AM Chuck77 has not replied
 Message 141 by Percy, posted 02-12-2012 8:28 AM Chuck77 has not replied
 Message 144 by jar, posted 02-12-2012 11:05 AM Chuck77 has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 134 of 286 (652056)
02-12-2012 4:19 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by Chuck77
02-12-2012 4:10 AM


Re: Story time...
I presume that these are intended as examples of stupid things a creationist might say ?
quote:
If we descended from a common ancestor...how come we don't know who they were?
Obviously the fact that none of us can trace their ancestry that far back is the reason.
quote:
While your all trying to answer that...i'll give a little history lesson to the lurkers everyone is always talking about.
Once upon a time there was no common ancestor. We evolved from apes. Then, a big bright light went off in one or more, scientists head..."wait a second, this isn't going to work!"
Sooooooo, the common ancestor was born...
Pure fiction of course, and you'd have to be hopelesssly ignorant to believe it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Chuck77, posted 02-12-2012 4:10 AM Chuck77 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Chuck77, posted 02-12-2012 4:21 AM PaulK has replied

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 135 of 286 (652057)
02-12-2012 4:21 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by PaulK
02-12-2012 4:19 AM


Re: Story time...
Hi PaulK
Are you saying that within the TOE common ancestory has always been taught?
PaulK, is this what you're saying?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by PaulK, posted 02-12-2012 4:19 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by PaulK, posted 02-12-2012 5:01 AM Chuck77 has not replied
 Message 140 by RAZD, posted 02-12-2012 8:02 AM Chuck77 has not replied
 Message 142 by Percy, posted 02-12-2012 9:39 AM Chuck77 has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024