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Author Topic:   Landmark gay marriage trial starts today in California
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 286 of 759 (653168)
02-18-2012 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by Taz
02-17-2012 10:35 PM


This was in 1995.
So it hardly reflects the conditions that exist today as a result of the progress of legal gay rights, now does it?
I blame this on you guys, the liberal commie political correctness police crowd.
What am I supposed to say to this except that you can go fuck yourself, Taz? I sure as hell don't see conservatives/libertarians like you doing jack fucking shit for the rights of women, minorities, poor people, gays/lesbians, or anybody else besides rich white guys.
What the fuck does "liberal commie political correctness police crowd" even fucking mean? You sound like a lunatic. Jesus, do you blame the Illuminati and the Bilderbergs, too?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Taz, posted 02-17-2012 10:35 PM Taz has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1245 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 287 of 759 (653173)
02-18-2012 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by Artemis Entreri
02-18-2012 6:35 PM


Grow up
It's a sign of maturity to admit one's mistakes. That you don't is telling.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Artemis Entreri, posted 02-18-2012 6:35 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by Artemis Entreri, posted 02-23-2012 11:15 AM subbie has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3281 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 288 of 759 (653181)
02-19-2012 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 283 by NoNukes
02-18-2012 3:48 PM


NoNukes writes:
What I really don't understand is how any of that is the fault of liberal commies who oppose those Republican candidates on nearly every issue.
Allow me to explain again. Crashfrog, you listening?
In the past, civil/women/whatever rights movements have been successful because of 2 things: (1) the people whose rights in question demonstrate and demand respect and (2) their opposition was shown to be bigot bastards. The southern firm opposition to desegregation showed turned the rest of the country to favor desegregation. The more the racist bastards murder and beat the desegregationists, the more mainstream society became in favor of desegregation and eventually equal rights.
But nowadays, whenever a bigot says something that expresses his true feelings, you liberal commie political correctness police crowd shout him down and teach him to say the same bigoted things in less offensive words. In other words, YOU PEOPLE have taught them to say "gays be gone" without actually saying it. Instead, they hide their bigotry behind the bible, god, their religion, bushism, etc. They know where the line is. They know that if they cross the line they will turn the rest of the country against them. So, they just walk right up to the line and stay there.
This is why the gay rights movement is slow down to a crawl.
Do you think this is some kind of rebuttal? Those candidates are scum, and I don't think all that much of the audience either. Audiences have similarly applauded the idea that poor sick people should just die off rather than having access to health care.
When Rick Santorum said that he'd reinstate DADT and that got big round of applauds, he essentially said he was going to kick every freakin' gay service man and woman out of the military. But since most people have an IQ of a peanut, they just swallowed that BS.
You liberal commie political correctness crowd don't want to offend people. And in turn, you've given the bigots the best weapon they could ever have to discriminate against their fellow man. It's disgusting. As long as they keep their words politically correct, they can continue to discriminate all they want. And you liberal commies seem to be just fine with it as long as they stay politically correct.
My solution. Stop worrying so much about the words that people say and pay attention to what they're actually saying. Use your brain to think beyond their words. Let them speak their mind. If they hate niggers, let them say it. You think shouting them down will actually turn them into non-racists? All it does is make them smarter.
Added by edit.
By the way, my opinion isn't popular among my gay friends either. So, don't worry if you don't get my point. I guess people would rather be knifed from behind than in front. Just this time last month, one guy I know (a gay guy no less) got his head chewed open by the liberal commie crowd because he used the word "transy" to describe his friend. When you got people wanting to put you in concentration camps, you're going to worry about that?
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-19-2012 3:54 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 290 by onifre, posted 02-19-2012 12:54 PM Taz has not replied
 Message 291 by crashfrog, posted 02-19-2012 1:03 PM Taz has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 289 of 759 (653192)
02-19-2012 3:54 AM
Reply to: Message 288 by Taz
02-19-2012 12:09 AM


In the past, civil/women/whatever rights movements have been successful because of 2 things: (1) the people whose rights in question demonstrate and demand respect and (2) their opposition was shown to be bigot bastards. The southern firm opposition to desegregation showed turned the rest of the country to favor desegregation. The more the racist bastards murder and beat the desegregationists, the more mainstream society became in favor of desegregation and eventually equal rights.
May I take it, though, that you don't want actual murder and assault, just a bit more name-calling?
But nowadays, whenever a bigot says something that expresses his true feelings, you liberal commie political correctness police crowd shout him down and teach him to say the same bigoted things in less offensive words. In other words, YOU PEOPLE have taught them to say "gays be gone" without actually saying it.
So, to summarize. You want them to say (even more) hateful and bigoted things, so that people will recoil in shock. But you feel that they're inhibited from doing so by the knowledge that if they ever do so, the "liberal commie political correctness police crowd" ... will in fact recoil in shock. The "lcpcpc" should be privately, inwardly shocked, without outwardly recoiling or even flinching, so that the bigots will go on shocking them unaware of the bad impression that they're making.
Well, look, if people are shocked, then at least one of them is going to mention it. To almost quote Benjamin Franklin: "100,000,000 people can keep a secret, if 99,999,998 of them are dead."
When Rick Santorum said that he'd reinstate DADT and that got big round of applauds, he essentially said he was going to kick every freakin' gay service man and woman out of the military. But since most people have an IQ of a peanut, they just swallowed that BS.
You liberal commie political correctness crowd don't want to offend people. And in turn, you've given the bigots the best weapon they could ever have to discriminate against their fellow man. It's disgusting. As long as they keep their words politically correct, they can continue to discriminate all they want.
Except that liberals did just repeal DADT, despite all those "politically correct words" from the right, and despite liberals' alleged unwillingness to give offense.
My solution. Stop worrying so much about the words that people say and pay attention to what they're actually saying.
Taz, meet Taz. Either the words matter, or they don't. The liberals have had their heads down doing actual stuff like repealing DADT. You have apparently been worrying about whether liberals are somehow (seemingly by their very existence rather than by any actual overt action they've taken) inhibiting Rick Santorum from using the word "faggot" in public. But if the words are unimportant, then how does it mater if they do so?
---
Finally, I would point out that politicians sanitizing their words is nothing new and dates to well before the invention of that vacuous term "political correctness". You will remember, perhaps, that a while back we were discussing the reasons for the Civil War. I therefore had occasion to read the speeches of a number of politicians advocating secession. Somehow they all managed to do it without using the term "nigger". Or, for that matter, "damyankee".
Possibly the same was true of politicians defending segregation, I don't know. I dare say I could look it up.
I do know that liberals won both those fights despite objecting to the word "nigger". Just as they repealed DADT while objecting to the word "faggot". Perhaps it is not, after all, their linguistic preferences that stand in the way of progress.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Taz, posted 02-19-2012 12:09 AM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-19-2012 10:02 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2941 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 290 of 759 (653232)
02-19-2012 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Taz
02-19-2012 12:09 AM


Politically incorrectness
This is why the gay rights movement is slow down to a crawl.
I agree. If we could just call them dirty, cock sucking faggits and nasty twat licking dykes to their faces, all will be right with the world and advances would finally be made in the gay rights movement.
This is thinking outside the box!
You liberal commie political correctness crowd don't want to offend people.
Thank you. Marxist liberals who support toned down versions of certain phrases don't get that you could just as well call a gay person a dirty fag and it would solve just as many problems as calling them gay.
As long as they keep their words politically correct, they can continue to discriminate all they want. And you liberal commies seem to be just fine with it as long as they stay politically correct.
Fucking hippie Marxists, ruining perfectly good politically incorrect words with politically correct words, and in turn helping people who think politically incorrect build a politically correct argument. All the while gays aren't being called fags to their faces, keeping them down! Can't anyone see the logic here? Ugh
Stop worrying so much about the words that people say and pay attention to what they're actually saying.
Finally, someone with some sense, thanks Taz.
People should NOT listen to the words people say and instead they should actually listen to the words people are saying. Brilliant!
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Taz, posted 02-19-2012 12:09 AM Taz has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(2)
Message 291 of 759 (653234)
02-19-2012 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Taz
02-19-2012 12:09 AM


But nowadays, whenever a bigot says something that expresses his true feelings, you liberal commie political correctness police crowd shout him down and teach him to say the same bigoted things in less offensive words.
Ah, that makes perfect sense! Our vocal opposition to expressions of racial or homophobic animus creates a nurturing environment for racial and homophobic animus. On the other hand, if we followed suit with our conservative brethren, like you, and did absolutely nothing in the face of naked bigotry, bigots will respond to the overwhelming drone of crickets and tumbleweeds by giving up on bigotry - just like they did in the 60's, when Martin Luther King Jr. made his historic "I Have a Dream, or Maybe I Don't, Whatever You White People Want" speech, or when Rosa Parks so proudly and courageously agreed to stand in the back of the bus so a white guy could take her seat.
The more the racist bastards murder and beat the desegregationists, the more mainstream society became in favor of desegregation and eventually equal rights.
Oh, I see. So when you invoked Tyra Hunter before, that wasn't an example of homophobic animus leading to a regrettable death, that was actually an incredible victory in the campaign for gay rights and the way it's supposed to work, in your view. The exact same way Matthew Shepard set out to get himself dragged to death by a pair of Wyoming cowboys so that Moises Kaufmann could write the Laramie Project.
This is why the gay rights movement is slow down to a crawl.
Because gay men and women aren't throwing themselves onto the bayonets of their enemies wholesale?
That's right, gays - unless you're being herded onto boxcars, you're not winning.
By the way, my opinion isn't popular among my gay friends either.
Wow, imagine that - your gay friends aren't mouthbreathing fucking idiots. I'm sure it never would have occurred to you that they know more about how to achieve equality than you do, right?
Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Taz, posted 02-19-2012 12:09 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by Taz, posted 02-19-2012 2:03 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3281 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(1)
Message 292 of 759 (653241)
02-19-2012 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by crashfrog
02-19-2012 1:03 PM


crashfrog writes:
I'm sure it never would have occurred to you that they know more about how to achieve equality than you do, right?
And I repeat. So far not a single state has voted by majority to allow gay marriage. It's been done in the courts. And even then, they're being challenged as we speak. That's not achieving much. It's gaining ground 1 inch at a time. Still got a hundred miles to go.
Why is it that people all of the sudden forgot that they voted a sodomy law advocate into the office twice? This is anything but progress.
Anyway, good luck doing it your way. You guys would rather have subtle bigotry in your face.
Edit.
Here's my suggestion for a new approach. Stop saying things like "it's ok to disagree" or "we respect your religious beliefs". Instead, say "if you don't like us, just say so" and "let's talk specifics about why you hate gay people". I regularly talk to bigots. I've found that if you press them hard enough for specifics, they will have none to give you. The point is to make them aware that they have nothing to fall on. The reasonable or semi-reasonable ones will eventually turn. The unreasonable ones (like buzsaw) we just have to wait for them to die.
That sure beats being all respectful of their beliefs.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by crashfrog, posted 02-19-2012 1:03 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by onifre, posted 02-19-2012 2:31 PM Taz has replied
 Message 294 by crashfrog, posted 02-19-2012 2:56 PM Taz has not replied
 Message 305 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-24-2012 5:15 PM Taz has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2941 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 293 of 759 (653247)
02-19-2012 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by Taz
02-19-2012 2:03 PM


So far not a single state has voted by majority to allow gay marriage. It's been done in the courts. And even then, they're being challenged as we speak. That's not achieving much.
Agreed, most Sundays are "challenge the gays" day.
It's gaining ground 1 inch at a time.
That's what he said.
Still got a hundred miles to go.
That's what... wait, he said that? Or did she...? Someone said that.
Why is it that people all of the sudden forgot that they voted a sodomy law advocate into the office twice?
Forget? Maybe others have, but I remind myself of this everyday as I'm brushing my teeth.
Anyway, good luck doing it your way. You guys would rather have subtle bigotry in your face.
Yup, that's how these Marxist roll. I like me some no-holds-barred bigotry, right to my face! I usually correct people, or at least advise them not to be all PC around me when they're being bigots.
Here's my suggestion for a new approach. Stop saying things like "it's ok to disagree" or "we respect your religious beliefs". Instead, say "if you don't like us, just say so" and "let's talk specifics about why you hate gay people".
A more clear cut argument has never been proposed. Well done, Taz.
The reasonable or semi-reasonable ones will eventually turn. The unreasonable ones (like buzsaw) we just have to wait for them to die.
Very good point again. Wait for them to die and take homophobia with them. Just like it worked for racism. All those slave owners are dead, thus, so is racism.
I'm with it.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by Taz, posted 02-19-2012 2:03 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by Taz, posted 02-19-2012 7:44 PM onifre has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 294 of 759 (653256)
02-19-2012 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by Taz
02-19-2012 2:03 PM


Stop saying things like "it's ok to disagree" or "we respect your religious beliefs".
I've never said that, and I doubt you'll find too many gay rights activists who have, either, except as a mealy-mouthed concession to politeness on TV or something. LOL, did you think they actually meant it?
Somebody has religious beliefs against legal equality for homosexuals? I don't give a shit, they can have their say and rights advocates can have theirs, and then they'll use whatever legal mechanisms are at their disposal to win. Courts, legislatures - at least a couple of states now have gay marriage as a result of laws, not rulings - anything. Why shouldn't they?
That sure beats being all respectful of their beliefs.
But it pales in comparison to the benefits of legal rights.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by Taz, posted 02-19-2012 2:03 PM Taz has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3281 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 295 of 759 (653295)
02-19-2012 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by onifre
02-19-2012 2:31 PM


Please don't make me call immigration on your ass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by onifre, posted 02-19-2012 2:31 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 297 by onifre, posted 02-20-2012 10:37 AM Taz has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(4)
Message 296 of 759 (653306)
02-19-2012 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by Dr Adequate
02-19-2012 3:54 AM


Possibly the same was true of politicians defending segregation, I don't know. I dare say I could look it up.
Well, I checked. Here's the text of Wallace's infamous "segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation for ever" speech. He manages to get through it without once using the word "nigger". What a southern gentleman he was, to be sure! In fact, he's positively brimming over with love for Alabama's "negro citizens". As he explains:
We invite the negro citizens of Alabama to work with us from his separate racial station as we will work with him . . to develop, to grow in individual freedom and enrichment. We want jobs and a good future for BOTH races [...] And my prayer is that the Father who reigns above us will bless all the people of this great sovereign State and nation, both white and black.
Aw, what a nice man.
The fact is that pretty much every politician who runs on a platform of being a hate-filled bigot has tried to disguise this fact from himself and from his followers, who would prefer to believe that they are actually motivated by something other than hate and bigotry. It doesn't take the "liberal commie blah blah whatever" (I forget the exact absurd phrase you used) to make him do that, he does it all by himself. Politically correct communists were probably quite thin on the ground among the Alabama electorate in the early 1960s, but even without their help Wallace struggled through his entire inane speech without once saying: "Let's face it, we just hate niggers, don't we?"
And yet somehow the Civil Rights Movement prevailed, segregation was abolished, and Wallace's place in the history books is as a paleolithic boogeyman. Who'da thought it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-19-2012 3:54 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2941 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 297 of 759 (653354)
02-20-2012 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 295 by Taz
02-19-2012 7:44 PM


Please don't make me call immigration on your ass.
I don't know why you would so rude when I'm defending your rational argument?
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by Taz, posted 02-19-2012 7:44 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by Taz, posted 02-23-2012 2:33 PM onifre has replied

  
Shield
Member (Idle past 2852 days)
Posts: 482
Joined: 01-29-2008


Message 298 of 759 (653356)
02-20-2012 10:47 AM


Wrong thread, edited empty
Edited by rbp, : No reason given.

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4219 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 299 of 759 (653646)
02-23-2012 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 287 by subbie
02-18-2012 6:59 PM


Re: Grow up
you don't either.
everything you accuse me of you are also guilty of,
talk about telling.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by subbie, posted 02-18-2012 6:59 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1245 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 300 of 759 (653648)
02-23-2012 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 299 by Artemis Entreri
02-23-2012 11:15 AM


Re: Grow up
Examples?

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by Artemis Entreri, posted 02-23-2012 11:15 AM Artemis Entreri has not replied

  
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