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Author Topic:   Quick Questions, Short Answers - No Debate
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 349 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 196 of 341 (653965)
02-25-2012 5:18 PM


Christian Oriented Forum
Can anyone recommend a good Christian oriented debate forum where they don't use banning people as their primary response?

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by Percy, posted 02-25-2012 5:22 PM Dogmafood has replied
 Message 209 by ramoss, posted 02-26-2012 11:06 PM Dogmafood has replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 197 of 341 (653967)
02-25-2012 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Dogmafood
02-25-2012 5:18 PM


Re: Christian Oriented Forum
People's experiences vary, but I've always liked The Evolution Fairytale .
My own interpretation of the heavy handed way many Christian sites are moderated is that many of them view themselves as a ministry, and so what gets posted on the discussion board is considered part of the message.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Dogmafood, posted 02-25-2012 5:18 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Dogmafood, posted 02-25-2012 5:29 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 349 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 198 of 341 (653968)
02-25-2012 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by Percy
02-25-2012 5:22 PM


Re: Christian Oriented Forum
Thanks Percy. I tried that one but was banned for being a time waster. At least I think it was that but they didn't exactly say.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Percy, posted 02-25-2012 5:22 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 199 of 341 (653970)
02-25-2012 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by hooah212002
01-23-2012 6:26 PM


Re: Gasoline prices
In laymens terms, why do gas prices (the prices we pay at the pump) fluctuate on a daily basis? Why is it the only consumer item that does this
Gas station operators try to make sure that they always bring in enough revenue to buy the next shipment of gas, but also have to be wary of charging even a tiny bit more than their competitor across the street. They have to speculate on a daily basis as to how much they are going to be charged for the next shipment. I'm not sure where they all get their info on what is happening to the price of gas, but they have to be very reactive to that information.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by hooah212002, posted 01-23-2012 6:26 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by Jon, posted 02-25-2012 9:12 PM NoNukes has replied

Jon
Inactive Member


Message 200 of 341 (653993)
02-25-2012 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by NoNukes
02-25-2012 5:42 PM


Re: Gasoline prices
Gas station operators try to make sure that they always bring in enough revenue to buy the next shipment of gas,
Perhaps this is all hooey, but there was a news story on TV a long while ago which claimed that only a few cents of each gallon actually goes to the gas station.
I have no idea how this number was calculated, and it sounds pretty suspect to me. But perhaps it has some merit... and some meaning!
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by NoNukes, posted 02-25-2012 5:42 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by Coyote, posted 02-25-2012 9:30 PM Jon has replied
 Message 205 by NoNukes, posted 02-26-2012 12:56 PM Jon has replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2107 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 201 of 341 (653994)
02-25-2012 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Jon
02-25-2012 9:12 PM


Re: Gasoline prices
And if you look at the tax statement on the pump, many times that figure goes to the various governments.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Jon, posted 02-25-2012 9:12 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 202 of 341 (654000)
02-25-2012 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by hooah212002
01-23-2012 6:26 PM


Re: Gasoline prices
hooah writes:
In laymens terms, why do gas prices (the prices we pay at the pump) fluctuate on a daily basis?
...
If this sparks a huge discussion, I'd be glad to start a topic so we don't muddy this thread
Well.
Contending with nearby competitors is definitely a factor, but the larger driving force, I think, is the speculative nature of the global oil futures market which shifts with the slightest change in political and economic winds. Speculation in oil markets has increased dramatically in recent years as investors turned away from unstable bond and equity markets to energy markets driven by an apparently insatiable demand.
My understanding is that most gas stations are franchise operations, and the operator does not technically "own" the gas until the actual moment of retail sale--the cost to the operator for gas currently in his station tanks changes after delivery, a truly frightening way to have to operate a business.
So we don't have the dynamics of a perfect market, where the retailer sells at a margin above a cost fixed at the time of wholesale purchase.
Incidentally, oil markets are perhaps the most manipulated of all commodities: oil producing nations seek to keep prices high by reducing supply at the source; refiners do the same thing by shuttering refineries when demand drops and their returns are "suboptimal". I'm sure you've noticed how high prices in recent years have at times lowered demand, leading to lower prices--until the producers and/or the refiners restrict supply, and prices rise again despite the continuing low demand.
At present there is a near glut of oil, globally. But because the market is a speculative commodity market, Iran's threats to block the Straits, however empty, have caused a price per barrel to refiners spike; prior to that, American refiners had shuttered many refineries for "scheduled maintenance", so now prices already manipulated upward by refiners have moved higher on fairly thin fears of reduced supply.
It's a mug's game, like most energy markets. You may recall that part of the Enron scandal included strong evidence that "routine maintenance" of electrical plants was being scheduled in a conspiratorial manner to boost profits by orchestrating supply shortages, especially in California markets.
The only countries with cheap gas these days are places like Bahrain, Venezuela, etc., who have production in excess of domestic need and keep prices low to buy political stability at home.
Compared to most industrialized nations, our gas is cheap, even at nearly $5/gallon. Most of Europe pays close to $10/gallon, largely due to taxes, though in part due to our greater access to domestic production. A good argument can be made that European prices better reflect the actual cost to society of burning carbon fuels (pollution and consequent health costs, the economic impact of huge import payments, etc.). Many American economists have urged higher gas taxes for decades--to discourage profligate American consumption, to encourage conservation, to improve our import-export balance, etc.
If I had to give a "short answer to quick questions" I'd say that gas prices change daily, mostly upward, because energy corporations own the entire GOP and a fair slice of the Democratic Party.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by hooah212002, posted 01-23-2012 6:26 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

Jon
Inactive Member


Message 203 of 341 (654002)
02-26-2012 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by Coyote
02-25-2012 9:30 PM


Re: Gasoline prices
And if you look at the tax statement on the pump, many times that figure goes to the various governments.
Not quite enough though... at least according to the potholes down the street.
Jon

Love your enemies!

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 Message 201 by Coyote, posted 02-25-2012 9:30 PM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by Omnivorous, posted 02-26-2012 10:53 AM Jon has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 204 of 341 (654041)
02-26-2012 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by Jon
02-26-2012 1:14 AM


Re: Gasoline prices
From Wiki:
quote:
In January 2011, motor gasoline taxes averaged 48.1 cents per gallon (12.71 /L) and diesel fuel taxes averaged 53.1 cents per gallon (14.03 /L).[9] For the first quarter of 2009, the mean state gasoline tax is 27.2 cents per US gallon, plus 18.4 cents per US gallon federal tax making the total 45.6 cents per US gallon (12.0/L).
So not much of that $5 per gallon goes for taxes--which at the federal level are earmarked to maintain the interstate system built by that fascist Eisenhower to promote national security and prosperity. Most of that money is returned to the states for maintenance, promoting their economies through both employment and infrastructure. A few states and localities add sales taxes, but most don't.
The federal gas tax was last raised in 1993, so the purchasing power of its yield has declined significantly. You don't have to drive far to see the results.
The conservative position is generally that this taxation should be levied entirely at the state level, if at all. I presume they long for the day when, if you want a road to your home, you build it yourself: the rich and the poor will be equally free to do so.
Some states--generally GOP governed ones--have sold off their revenues from toll roads for decades in order to garner enough revenue to avoid tax increases and preserve their ideological purity. Those deals have generally looked like bad ones to me: if companies are willing to buy your toll revenues with billions up front, you probably aren't making out all that well in the long run, though you may be buying enough sucker votes to stay in office.
The same lack of vision that leads corporations to eliminate jobs to plump up quarterly reports--ignoring the dismal long-term prospect of doing business is an employment-deficient nation--prompts tax warriors to oppose the revenues that maintain our transportation system. We have cut taxes for the wealthy while our foundations crumble.
I don't know if there is a neronian fiddle playing somewhere, but there ought to be.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Jon, posted 02-26-2012 1:14 AM Jon has not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 205 of 341 (654044)
02-26-2012 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Jon
02-25-2012 9:12 PM


Re: Gasoline prices
Perhaps this is all hooey, but there was a news story on TV a long while ago which claimed that only a few cents of each gallon actually goes to the gas station.
I don't doubt that gas station operators don't make a lot of profit on each gallon of gasoline. But they still have to keep buying and pumping gas in order to sell over priced chips, flashlights, milk, hot dogs, beer, phony stay awake juice, etc. When the cost of buying new gasoline starts cutting into the snack profits, then the station can be in trouble.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Jon, posted 02-25-2012 9:12 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Jon, posted 02-26-2012 2:27 PM NoNukes has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 206 of 341 (654046)
02-26-2012 2:22 PM


Moderator Request
Maybe someone could start a thread about gasoline prices?

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Jon
Inactive Member


Message 207 of 341 (654047)
02-26-2012 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by NoNukes
02-26-2012 12:56 PM


Re: Gasoline prices
I don't doubt that gas station operators don't make a lot of profit on each gallon of gasoline. But they still have to keep buying and pumping gas in order to sell over priced chips, flashlights, milk, hot dogs, beer, phony stay awake juice, etc. When the cost of buying new gasoline starts cutting into the snack profits, then the station can be in trouble.
I thought the snacks were expensive because of low volume sales on snacks and to make up for low profits on the gas.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by NoNukes, posted 02-26-2012 12:56 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by NoNukes, posted 02-26-2012 2:58 PM Jon has not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 208 of 341 (654051)
02-26-2012 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Jon
02-26-2012 2:27 PM


Topic Moved
I thought the snacks were expensive because of low volume sales on snacks and to make up for low profits on the gas.
Yes, but how is that at odds with anything I said?
If the operator does not have gas to sell, the snacks don't get bought in any appreciable volume.
Topic moved here
Edited by AdminPhat, : topic link

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Jon, posted 02-26-2012 2:27 PM Jon has not replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 613 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 209 of 341 (654114)
02-26-2012 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Dogmafood
02-25-2012 5:18 PM


Re: Christian Oriented Forum
how about debatingchristianity.com They do have a thing about being civil...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Dogmafood, posted 02-25-2012 5:18 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Dogmafood, posted 02-27-2012 7:10 AM ramoss has not replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 210 of 341 (654129)
02-27-2012 2:19 AM


Why do most people only want to buy the ipad?

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by Theodoric, posted 02-27-2012 9:17 AM Taz has not replied

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