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Author Topic:   The Irrefutable Public Health Care Thread
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 256 of 314 (653918)
02-25-2012 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by onifre
02-25-2012 12:21 PM


RE: taking care of your health
But it is documented FACT that a heathy diet and exercising program is a cure for depression.
FALSE. Everyone knows for a fact that cocaine binges and alcoholism are the only cure for depression. Heroin doesn't hurt either. You show me a "happy" healthy person and I'll show you an even happier drunk. The drunk is 10 times more fun too.

"There is no refutation of Darwinian evolution in existence. If a refutation ever were to come about, it would come from a scientist, and not an idiot." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by onifre, posted 02-25-2012 12:21 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by onifre, posted 02-25-2012 1:24 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 257 of 314 (653919)
02-25-2012 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by hooah212002
02-25-2012 1:15 PM


RE: taking care of your health
You show me a "happy" healthy person and I'll show you an even happier drunk. The drunk is 10 times more fun too.
Yeah but we can't all be high school guidance councelors. Not everyone should try to be a functioning alcoholic. Granted, 80% of Americans do try.
Cocaine and alcohol are great cures for boredom, but I don't think they're as effective as a good cardio program when it comes to depression.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by hooah212002, posted 02-25-2012 1:15 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by hooah212002, posted 02-25-2012 3:10 PM onifre has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 258 of 314 (653946)
02-25-2012 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by onifre
02-25-2012 1:24 PM


RE: taking care of your health
but I don't think they're as effective as a good cardio program when it comes to depression.
What you "think" goes against the FACT that alcohol and cocaine (perhaps other drugs) are THE cure for depression. "Cardio" serves no purpose other than to make one tired and cause pain in the leg muscles.
FACT: Bears eat beets.
BattleStar Galactica.

"There is no refutation of Darwinian evolution in existence. If a refutation ever were to come about, it would come from a scientist, and not an idiot." -Dawkins

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 Message 257 by onifre, posted 02-25-2012 1:24 PM onifre has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 259 of 314 (653949)
02-25-2012 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by onifre
02-25-2012 12:21 PM


RE: taking care of your health
oni writes:
But it is documented FACT that a heathy diet and exercising program is a cure for depression.
Where are these documents kept?
Tryptamines are the only one-dose/long-acting cure for depression.
All other options are Band-Aids on gashes.
Jeez. Kids today...

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by onifre, posted 02-25-2012 12:21 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by onifre, posted 02-27-2012 11:27 AM Omnivorous has not replied

  
Warthog
Member (Idle past 3968 days)
Posts: 84
From: Earth
Joined: 01-18-2012


Message 260 of 314 (654144)
02-27-2012 7:15 AM
Reply to: Message 254 by onifre
02-25-2012 12:21 PM


RE: taking care of your health
quote:
Sure it takes a while, but it's a start. Get them off the butts and onto an intense cardio workout 7 days a week and a zero carb diet, and I think after a year of that they should be able to qualify for health insurance. See, very reasonable.
I'd be willing to bet you quit smoking a little over a year ago, maybe two.
What happens when they have a stroke during their mandatory Physical Jerks? Remember that the risk of stroke is high for 5-15 years after quitting.
quote:
I writes:
I also mentioned other drugs, injuries and mental illness as examples. How would you address these things? What about the suicidal depressive? Do they not 'deserve' help?
Well this isn't "health" as per physical issues, but rather mental issues that are separate problems.
Hang on - are you saying that an injury is a mental issue or that mental health isn't a physiological issue?
quote:
But it is documented FACT that a heathy diet and exercising program is a cure for depression. Look it up, I've already wasted too much time explaining that on this thread.
Don't have to look it up but for the sake of the argument...
Yes - exercise has a positive effect. There is even evidence that in cases of mild depression, exercise can be as effective as some antidepressants. This is hardly a cure all or there wouldn't be such a list of treatments used.. Note that this isn't because of Big Pharm or incompetent doctors but because different people suffering different conditions will respond to different treatments. Lack of exercise and general activity is actually a symptom of depression too.
Your biggest mistake in all of this is in the assumption that depression, rather than being such a complicated variety of conditions and symptoms of other conditions, is all the same as your 'self diagnosed depression'. It's a bit like saying that all viral infections are like having a cold. BTW - exercise won't save you from that either.
quote:
I'm only suggesting my plan under a FREE healthcare program.
It's not free. It's subsidised through government via taxation. Hardly free. Cheaper than the system in place but not free.
quote:
But if the government has to carry the burden of insuring it's citizens, then YES, it's only fair that everyone get healthy before they qualify so the cost is not as much on the tax payer.
But the US government is the only government in the developed world which doesn't subsidise health care and Americans are the some of the more unhealthy people. The evidence doesn't suggest that universal health care allows people to be more unhealthy; It suggests exactly the opposite. You've got it the wrong way around.
quote:
Did I mention not to sass me either? Well don't.
Don't tell me what to do.

Ignorance is a Tragedy
Willful Ignorance is a Sin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by onifre, posted 02-25-2012 12:21 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by onifre, posted 02-27-2012 11:49 AM Warthog has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 261 of 314 (654161)
02-27-2012 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by Omnivorous
02-25-2012 3:22 PM


RE: taking care of your health
Where are these documents kept?
I just read that in a Russian accent and man was it hilarious!
Anyway, as for the documents, don't worry, I got the documents. It's called Google, get with it.
Tryptamines are the only one-dose/long-acting cure for depression.
All other options are Band-Aids on gashes.
I see your documented proof is equal to mine.
Look, I go to the gym every morning, noon, and evening... I see people there... they dont look depressed, in fact, they look overwhelmingly happy. That's all the proof I need.
QED
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Omnivorous, posted 02-25-2012 3:22 PM Omnivorous has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 262 of 314 (654163)
02-27-2012 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by Warthog
02-27-2012 7:15 AM


RE: taking care of your health
What happens when they have a stroke during their mandatory Physical Jerks? Remember that the risk of stroke is high for 5-15 years after quitting.
Hey, look, if we lose a few, so be it. In the end though, we'll have a great group of fit Americans who did make the cut. No pain no gain. And by "pain" I mean death.
Hang on - are you saying that an injury is a mental issue or that mental health isn't a physiological issue?
Don't get too far ahead of yourself, Warty. What I'm saying is complicated, it takes intelligence to follow. I'll slow it down for you because, frankly, I care.
Those with neurological disorders, like deep mental issues require different care. Now, do I feel we should burden ourselves with this? No. I would be happy to let nature remove those traits naturally from our species rather than have to care for them for a lifetime.
But aside from that, extreme, yet totally normal process of selection, I feel mentally challenged people require further help aside from just hitting the gym. But for everyone else in America, your problems can all be solved with some sit ups, push ups and jogging.
Don't have to look it up but for the sake of the argument...
Yes - exercise has a positive effect. There is even evidence that in cases of mild depression, exercise can be as effective as some antidepressants. This is hardly a cure all or there wouldn't be such a list of treatments used.. Note that this isn't because of Big Pharm or incompetent doctors but because different people suffering different conditions will respond to different treatments. Lack of exercise and general activity is actually a symptom of depression too.
Ok, so I can bend a little. Get your exercise game up a bit, lets see some real progress in the gluts, traps and the quads area, and the sad ones can get their happy pills. But you gotta work for it! This is America, the land where EVERYONE works hard for what they have. At least it used to be like that till you know who took over.
But the US government is the only government in the developed world which doesn't subsidise health care and Americans are the some of the more unhealthy people.
It's circular. We are so unfit that we CAN'T be insured through government subsidised healthcare. We are unhealthy because we eat the LARGEST portions of food in the WORLD. We have more Mc Donalds in the US than the ENTIRE world combined! The whole fucking world!
This is the reason we are unhealthy, because of Baconators and super sized meals and Dorito tacos and a burger between two donuts and deep fried Oreos and soda and chips and etc, etc, etc...
You can't possibly disagree with that. And if you do you're in denial as to what the actual healthcare issues are in America.
The healthcare issues in this country have LITTLE to do with the healthcare providers and EVERYTHING to do with our eating habits.
Don't tell me what to do.
My bad.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Warthog, posted 02-27-2012 7:15 AM Warthog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by Warthog, posted 02-29-2012 6:08 AM onifre has replied

  
Warthog
Member (Idle past 3968 days)
Posts: 84
From: Earth
Joined: 01-18-2012


Message 263 of 314 (654316)
02-29-2012 6:08 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by onifre
02-27-2012 11:49 AM


RE: taking care of your health
Warthog writes:
I'd be willing to bet you quit smoking a little over a year ago, maybe two.
Onifre writes:
So, you're still smoking then? Or was I right?
quote:
Don't get too far ahead of yourself, Warty.
Still occupying only one point in space and time.
quote:
What I'm saying is complicated, it takes intelligence to follow.
Not yet
quote:
I'll slow it down for you because, frankly, I care.
I doubt it.
quote:
Those with neurological disorders, like deep mental issues require different care. Now, do I feel we should burden ourselves with this? No. I would be happy to let nature remove those traits naturally from our species rather than have to care for them for a lifetime.
You are oversimplifying again. Not everything is genetic or necessarily lethal.
quote:
But aside from that, extreme, yet totally normal process of selection, I feel mentally challenged people require further help aside from just hitting the gym.
Congratulations on your epiphany.
BTW - "mentally challenged people" is not in the PC newspeak dictionary. The preferred term is "potential axe murderer"
quote:
But for everyone else in America, your problems can all be solved with some sit ups, push ups and jogging.
You must know you're wrong. This is such a gross oversimplification that I just don't believe you really think that.
Causes of preventable deaths in the US
quote:
This is America, the land where EVERYONE works hard for what they have. At least it used to be like that till you know who took over.
Sorry, but it's really the land where the class divide is growing to epic proportions. I don't know which you know who you're talking about. I can remember hearing that my entire life about most of the you know whos.
quote:
It's circular. We are so unfit that we CAN'T be insured through government subsidised healthcare. We are unhealthy because we eat the LARGEST portions of food in the WORLD. We have more Mc Donalds in the US than the ENTIRE world combined! The whole fucking world!
I've already dealt with the McDonalds thing. The fact that you're big fat slobs isn't the only reason you are unhealthy as a nation. It's important but hardly the only thing.
quote:
You can't possibly disagree with that. And if you do you're in denial as to what the actual healthcare issues are in America.
The healthcare issues in this country have LITTLE to do with the healthcare providers and EVERYTHING to do with our eating habits.
I don't entirely disagree - healthy lifestyle reduces the need for health care but doesn't eliminate it. I've said it before - you are talking about a problem of education, marketing and culture. Health care is about dealing with existing problems. Both are equally important but not the same thing.
Your system wouldn't work any better then the prohibition. People will lead healthy or unhealthy lifestyles regardless of the cost of future health care and by then, it's too late. They will simply not get the care or will bankrupt their family to get it. Of course this will happen after stalling a while for it to get worse (and more expensive to treat) because it might go away by itself. Usually, none of this will happen before they have reproduced and have dependents that will also suffer the consequences, so your Darwin Awards argument isn't valid.
The solution to both problems is to educate people, young and old while treating all people who need treatment so that they can get back to work and paying taxes.
I really don't get why Americans are so afraid of the idea of medical care for those in need rather than those in clover.

Ignorance is a Tragedy
Willful Ignorance is a Sin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by onifre, posted 02-27-2012 11:49 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by Perdition, posted 02-29-2012 9:17 AM Warthog has not replied
 Message 266 by onifre, posted 03-01-2012 11:22 AM Warthog has replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3237 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 264 of 314 (654331)
02-29-2012 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 263 by Warthog
02-29-2012 6:08 AM


RE: taking care of your health
I really don't get why Americans are so afraid of the idea of medical care for those in need rather than those in clover.
Because it might help them illegal aliens, or terrorists, but I repeat myself. It might even help all those freeloading welfare millionaires, you know, the women who just pump out kid after kid, rake in the money from poor old Uncle Sam, and can live in luxury without having to work at all.
Or something like that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Warthog, posted 02-29-2012 6:08 AM Warthog has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 265 of 314 (654340)
02-29-2012 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 255 by onifre
02-25-2012 12:42 PM


RE: taking care of your health
By default, if you like pumping smoke into your lungs on a daily basis you don't have a concern for living.
Not true at all. I have yet to meet a smoker who didn't look both ways before crossing a street.
That the effects of death are slower in one than the other doesn't make the concern for life any more or less.
Actually, yes it does. The human psyche has a way of ignoring long term trends in favor of short term trends. This is why people look at global warming differently than dumping deadly toxins onto a schoolyard.
Now that's just silly. I'm only talking physical health not mental anyway.
Heroin addiction has much more drastic and serious health effects than smoking.
That's very well said and I'm almost all for it. I just don't see why, if we're going to be taxed for it, we can't demand that people get healthy in so much as what they can control?
You can't base laws on Utopian expectations. This has never worked. Any policy needs to factor in basic human frailties, one of which is people doing bad things for their long term health. This is why communism fails, it just assumes that everyone will stop being greedy because it is in the best interest of the society. The most stable societies are those that allow for greed within their economic system while still allowing for a semblence of fairness.
I mean, beach season is coming and frankly it grosses me out when I see unfit people there. We all have to suffer with that and it's unfair.
I can't argue against that one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by onifre, posted 02-25-2012 12:42 PM onifre has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 266 of 314 (654423)
03-01-2012 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 263 by Warthog
02-29-2012 6:08 AM


RE: taking care of your health
So, you're still smoking then? Or was I right?
I quit a year ago. But in my defense, I jog 5 miles literally everyday. So my lungs have recuperated I'd say 95% of their original function and quality. If not 100%
Congratulations on your epiphany.
BTW - "mentally challenged people" is not in the PC newspeak dictionary. The preferred term is "potential axe murderer"
Or "shiny box enthusiast." But if they're reading this, you still need to work out guys. No one is off the hook!
You must know you're wrong. This is such a gross oversimplification that I just don't believe you really think that.
Oh it may be a tad oversimplified but for the most part I'm right on the money.
The fact that you're big fat slobs isn't the only reason you are unhealthy as a nation. It's important but hardly the only thing.
It's the main reason, and the one to seriously focus on.
Your system wouldn't work any better then the prohibition. People will lead healthy or unhealthy lifestyles regardless of the cost of future health care and by then, it's too late. They will simply not get the care or will bankrupt their family to get it. Of course this will happen after stalling a while for it to get worse (and more expensive to treat) because it might go away by itself. Usually, none of this will happen before they have reproduced and have dependents that will also suffer the consequences, so your Darwin Awards argument isn't valid.
I'm not so pessimistic. I have it on good authority that my plan, when implemented, will be successful. We'll go through a rough period, no doubt. Close to what you're describing. But after that tough road, we'll be better off with heathier humans, and in better shape. We can win this battle of making our beaches look better. And in the end, isn't that what it's all for?
I really don't get why Americans are so afraid of the idea of medical care for those in need rather than those in clover.
We have a fine healthcare system here. It WOULD work perfect if not for ALL the unhealthy people sucking the system dry. The biggest problem facing us is our unhealthy lifestyle and eating habits. Our larger than life portions and our fast food take over. If we get rid of all that crap, and make Americans fit, healthy, exercising people who eat right and stay away from fast food places, our currently available heathcare system would be more than adequate.
But under our current lifestyle, ANY healthcare plan you produce, whether giovernment funded or not, will eventually not be enough to keep up with these unhealthy animals.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Warthog, posted 02-29-2012 6:08 AM Warthog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Warthog, posted 03-01-2012 2:16 PM onifre has replied
 Message 269 by Straggler, posted 03-02-2012 1:34 PM onifre has replied

  
Warthog
Member (Idle past 3968 days)
Posts: 84
From: Earth
Joined: 01-18-2012


Message 267 of 314 (654434)
03-01-2012 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by onifre
03-01-2012 11:22 AM


RE: taking care of your health
quote:
I quit a year ago. But in my defense, I jog 5 miles literally everyday. So my lungs have recuperated I'd say 95% of their original function and quality. If not 100%
Thought you sounded like a born again. It does explain your one year benchmark - gotta make sure you benefit from your own system.
You don't qualify - your lungs have only improved by about 10% so far. You're still likely to have a stroke, cancer or a heart attack because of your smoking. You would be rejected by your own system - go get healthier before we fix your worn out knees...
quote:
It's the main reason, and the one to seriously focus on.
You're not even close. Try again. Only 4.6% of preventable deaths are because of obesity in the US.
quote:
I'm not so pessimistic. I have it on good authority that my plan, when implemented, will be successful
I'm not being pessimistic - I'm just aware of reality.
What authority? Buddhists have it on good authority that the gluttons will come back as pigs.
quote:
We have a fine healthcare system here. It WOULD work perfect if not for ALL the unhealthy people sucking the system dry.
So you're saying that the largest economy in the world can't support the health of it's population better than Canada or Finland. Right. Sure thing.
Your health care system is a twisted mess of a trainwreck compared to the rest of the world but seeing as you show all of the hallmarks of the stereotypical insular American, you probably don't know that because that would involve knowing something about the world outside the US.
Americans Demand Increased Governmental Protection From Selves

Ignorance is a Tragedy
Willful Ignorance is a Sin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by onifre, posted 03-01-2012 11:22 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by onifre, posted 03-02-2012 8:08 AM Warthog has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 268 of 314 (654584)
03-02-2012 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by Warthog
03-01-2012 2:16 PM


Mr. Obama tear down that Mc Donalds!
You don't qualify - your lungs have only improved by about 10% so far.
You can't possibly know that, you're just guessing. You don't have access to my medical records. Trust me when I tell you 95%.
You're not even close. Try again. Only 4.6% of preventable deaths are because of obesity in the US.
Well I didn't say anything about death. If everyone died that would be fine. It's that they don't die and they stick around in need of heath care treatment.
But let's look at the numbers:
Obesity in America
quote:
If health is wealth, America is going bankrupt. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, more than one-third of adults and one sixth of children in America are obese.1 In the past twenty years, obesity rates doubled for adults and tripled for children. If these trends continue, by the time today’s children reach adulthood, obesity will be the norm and healthy weight the exception
Obesity increases risk of other chronic diseases
Of course, the rates of other chronic health conditions such as cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and high blood pressure are staggering as well. In 2004-2005, 60% of all Americans had at least one chronic health condition, 26% suffered from two or more chronic health conditions, and after age 55, those percentages rose to 78% and 47% respectively.6 All of these conditions - as well as stroke, depression, arthritis, and a host of others - are complications of obesity. 7 In other words, if you are overweight, you have an increased likelihood of also developing other chronic health problems.
In the United States today, 7 out of every 10 deaths are attributed to chronic disease. The World Health Organization estimates that by the year 2020, the rest of the world will have caught up with this number.8 For generations, America has been a world leader in the areas of technology, medical and scientific research, and higher education. But as we were spending billions of dollars and millions of man-hours solving the crises of infectious diseases around the world, a more silent, and more deadly, crisis grew in our own homes. And because of our influence, we are now leading the world towards a precipice of chronic disease.
Let's read the yellow highlighted part again:
In 2004-2005, 60% of all Americans had at least one chronic health condition, 26% suffered from two or more chronic health conditions, and after age 55, those percentages rose to 78% and 47% respectively. All of these conditions - as well as stroke, depression, arthritis, and a host of others - are complications of obesity.
ALL of these conditions are the result of complications with obesity. Even depression for all my doubters! Some one hand me a goddamn trophy for the work I've done in this thread, please!
So again, we don't need to focus on healthcare reform, we need to focus on eating reform.
So you're saying that the largest economy in the world can't support the health of it's population better than Canada or Finland. Right. Sure thing.
No no, you misunderstand. We have it TOO good here. We have TOO much. We have so much food here that we can't stop eating, and now can't cover the healthcare problems that have come about due to this type of eating habit.
No system can handle it. No system would be able to handle it. And there's no sense in even focusing on a NEW system if we're going to continue down this road. The old system works fine if people didn't eat so poorly.
I think this says it all: If these trends continue, by the time today’s children reach adulthood, obesity will be the norm and healthy weight the exception.
- Oni
If this doesn't get post of the month I don't know what will.
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Warthog, posted 03-01-2012 2:16 PM Warthog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by Warthog, posted 03-07-2012 9:01 AM onifre has replied
 Message 271 by Artemis Entreri, posted 03-07-2012 11:57 AM onifre has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 269 of 314 (654630)
03-02-2012 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by onifre
03-01-2012 11:22 AM


Freemarket Foodity
Oni writes:
We have a fine healthcare system here. It WOULD work perfect if not for ALL the unhealthy people sucking the system dry.
Any healthcare system would work perfectly in the absence of any people that need healthcare. Including no healthcare system at all. I'm not sure that is a realistic or appropriate benchmark.
It's like saying schools would run perfectly without any pupils. Pointlessly tautological.
Oni writes:
The biggest problem facing us is our unhealthy lifestyle and eating habits. Our larger than life portions and our fast food take over. If we get rid of all that crap, and make Americans fit, healthy, exercising people who eat right and stay away from fast food places, our currently available heathcare system would be more than adequate.
But Oni that would involve interference in the free-market miracle of providing people with what they want on the basis of what sells best.
We are evolutionarily programmed to seek out high fat, high sugar foods. So how are we going to tackle this deep seated natural instinct whilst simultaneously obeying the free-market fundamentalist dream that what people desire and are willing to pay for will result in the best overall result for all involved?
Something has to give doesn't it?
Why do you think America in particular suffers from the obesity problems you highlight? And are these same problems increasingly endemic in other countries pursuing the same socio-economic model?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by onifre, posted 03-01-2012 11:22 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by onifre, posted 03-19-2012 1:28 PM Straggler has replied

  
Warthog
Member (Idle past 3968 days)
Posts: 84
From: Earth
Joined: 01-18-2012


(1)
Message 270 of 314 (655093)
03-07-2012 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by onifre
03-02-2012 8:08 AM


Re: Mr. Obama tear down that Mc Donalds!
quote:
But let's look at the numbers:
Obesity in America
Wow. Statistics from a shop selling vegetarian food that show the benefits of vegetarianism. Riveting stuff.
Of course a healthy diet will improve general health. I never argued against it. Same with exercise.
quote:
Let's read the yellow highlighted part again:
OK
quote:
In 2004-2005, 60% of all Americans had at least one chronic health condition, 26% suffered from two or more chronic health conditions, and after age 55, those percentages rose to 78% and 47% respectively. All of these conditions - as well as stroke, depression, arthritis, and a host of others - are complications of obesity.
They are also complications of smoking, genetics, stress and more. This doesn't say that 60% of Americans had at least one chronic health condition because of obesity. It simply states that if you are overweight, you have an increased likelihood of also developing other chronic health problems. i.e. Being fat is bad for you. I have not once said otherwise.
quote:
In the United States today, 7 out of every 10 deaths are attributed to chronic disease.
That's got a lot to do with the fact that medicine has been busy curing acute deadly diseases, improving on injury treatment and making childbirth safer. People have to die of something and chronic health conditions are mostly systems breaking down with age and use. This is why the rates skyrocket as people get older. Lifestyle can help but never guarantee.
quote:
So again, we don't need to focus on healthcare reform, we need to focus on eating reform.
I half agree - you need to do both.
You need to work hard on educating the younger generations in particular so that they don't fall into the same trap all you fatsos have. Part of this could well be kicking the crap out of the fast food giants and advertisers. It's big and complicated.
The health care issue is still separate as it is all about peoples health needs now. This should not be dependent on income.
quote:
No no, you misunderstand. We have it TOO good here. We have TOO much. We have so much food here that we can't stop eating, and now can't cover the healthcare problems that have come about due to this type of eating habit.
So you can't afford it because you have too much?
Again - two separate issues with two different solutions. Without addressing them both you're wasting your time. You are dismissing one while blaming the other for everything.

Ignorance is a Tragedy
Willful Ignorance is a Sin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by onifre, posted 03-02-2012 8:08 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by onifre, posted 03-19-2012 1:36 PM Warthog has not replied

  
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