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Author Topic:   Evolution is not Abiogenesis
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 194 of 251 (655232)
03-08-2012 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by marc9000
03-08-2012 8:04 PM


Re: Analogies
marc9000 writes:
TAQ WAS THE ONE WHO DECLARED IT TO BE ABOUT ABIOGENESIS. Why didn’t you correct him? Why did he even post that? Why was he dishonest about it being about abiogensis? Why are you trying to cover for him?
And why are you unable to comprehend simple English?
taq writes:
Fine then. Let's blend them into the same thing. Abiogenesis and evolution are now the same. I don't think you will like this result, however.
So have we observed abiogenesis? Yep, sure have. Here is a great paper demonstrating abiogenesis:
This is Taq showing you what the consequences of merging abiogenesis and evolution are.
He is not saying that they should be merged; he is merely describing what would happen if they were.
This is not an advanced conversational technique.
But for some reason it goes completely over your head.
No wonder you are having trouble understanding the Theory of Evolution - it is written in English.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by marc9000, posted 03-08-2012 8:04 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 216 of 251 (655600)
03-11-2012 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by RAZD
03-11-2012 4:58 PM


Re: Summary too
RAZD writes:
Abiogenesis involves chemical processes, evolution does not.
Evolution involves biological processes, abiogenesis does not.
They cannot be the same thing nor can one be a subset of the other.
Surely chemical processes are a subset of biological processes?
Wiki: A biological process is a process of a living organism. Biological processes are made up of any number of chemical reactions or other events that results in a transformation.
Wiki: A chemical process is a method or means of somehow changing one or more chemicals or chemical compounds. Such a chemical process can occur by itself or be caused by somebody. Such a chemical process commonly involves a chemical reaction of some sort.
Although I agree that abiogenesis and evolution are different areas of research, I do not see how your statement supports that.
Abiogenesis is "No life" to "Life".
Evolution is "Life" to "Different life".
This seems to me to be a clear enough difference for all but the most delusional.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by RAZD, posted 03-11-2012 4:58 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by RAZD, posted 03-11-2012 9:14 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 218 of 251 (655617)
03-11-2012 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by RAZD
03-11-2012 9:14 PM


Re: Summary too
RAZD writes:
Panda writes:
Surely chemical processes are a subset of biological processes?
There are clearly processes in abiogenesis that are different from processes in evolution, for instance population dynamics is not a chemical process, it is a biological process and it affects evolution.
I agree.
But that does not negate the fact that chemical processes are a subset of biological processes.
RAZD writes:
That there may be some processes in common does not rule out processes that are exclusive to the two sciences.
I agree. But that is not what you originally said.
"Abiogenesis involves chemical processes, evolution does not."
This is simply incorrect.
Evolution does involve chemical processes.
Your explanation of "the essential difference between abiogenesis and evolution" is faulty.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by RAZD, posted 03-11-2012 9:14 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by RAZD, posted 03-11-2012 10:23 PM Panda has replied
 Message 223 by anglagard, posted 03-12-2012 3:39 AM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 220 of 251 (655619)
03-11-2012 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by RAZD
03-11-2012 10:23 PM


Re: Summary too nitter natter noo
RAZD writes:
Panda writes:
But that does not negate the fact that chemical processes are a subset of biological processes.
Would you not agree that there is a majority of chemical processes that are not biological and have nothing to do with biology?
Would you not agree that chemical processes are a subset of biological processes?
RAZD writes:
You get the nit-picker award, happy?
You would rather be wrong than be corrected?
Or are you just upset at having to hand over your nit-picker award?

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by RAZD, posted 03-11-2012 10:23 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by NoNukes, posted 03-11-2012 11:19 PM Panda has replied
 Message 227 by RAZD, posted 03-12-2012 9:56 AM Panda has seen this message but not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 222 of 251 (655621)
03-11-2012 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by NoNukes
03-11-2012 11:19 PM


Re: Summary too nitter natter noo
NoNukes writes:
In order to answer no to your question, I would only need to identify a single chemical process that was not also a biological process. I chose for my example of a chemical process that is not also a biological process the formation of xenon dioxide by way of hydrolysis of xenon tetrafluoride.
It is a shame that RAZD was too busy sulking to actually address my question (even though I asked it twice).
I think I agree with your answer.
What is your opinion of RAZD's claim that "Abiogenesis involves chemical processes, evolution does not."?

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by NoNukes, posted 03-11-2012 11:19 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by NoNukes, posted 03-12-2012 8:41 AM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 224 of 251 (655625)
03-12-2012 7:05 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by anglagard
03-12-2012 3:39 AM


Re: No Chemistry Without Life?
anglagard writes:
I think you may want to rephrase this response.
Yes. NoNukes successfully explained my mistake in Message 221.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by anglagard, posted 03-12-2012 3:39 AM anglagard has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 226 of 251 (655631)
03-12-2012 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by NoNukes
03-12-2012 8:41 AM


Re: Summary too nitter natter noo
NoNukes writes:
Evolution includes process that result in changes in DNA molecules. How is that not chemistry?
That is what I thought too.
Just checkin'.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by NoNukes, posted 03-12-2012 8:41 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 241 of 251 (657705)
03-30-2012 4:39 AM
Reply to: Message 239 by Portillo
03-30-2012 4:02 AM


Portillo writes:
What do you guys and girls think of this quote by Theodosius Dobzhansky?
What do you think of these quotes by Theodosius Dobzhansky?
quote:
Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
quote:
I am a creationist and an evolutionist. Evolution is God's, or Nature's method of creation. Creation is not an event that happened in 4004 BC; it is a process that began some 10 billion years ago and is still under way.
quote:
Does the evolutionary doctrine clash with religious faith? It does not. It is a blunder to mistake the Holy Scriptures for elementary textbooks of astronomy, geology, biology, and anthropology. Only if symbols are construed to mean what they are not intended to mean can there arise imaginary, insoluble conflicts. ...the blunder leads to blasphemy: the Creator is accused of systematic deceitfulness.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Portillo, posted 03-30-2012 4:02 AM Portillo has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 250 of 251 (676096)
10-19-2012 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 248 by Alfred Maddenstein
10-18-2012 10:10 PM


Re: Resolving Some Confusion
AM writes:
What is pre-life, pray? The concept sounds like pre-virginity to the feline.
Transition from non-life to pre-life sounds like losing pre-virginity. Replication errors in pre-life? What's that? The concept is memory error which is not just forgetfulness but a substitution of the forgotten with fiction some of which fits changing reality. While both to forget something or to tell fibs in place of the forgotten, something has to be in memory already. Memory seems to be the essence of being alive. No difference between the virus and the human.
Nothing in your post is correct - it is all wrong.
Nothing in your post is true - it is all false.
Nothing in your post makes sense - it is all nonsense.
I think that just about sums it up.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 10-18-2012 10:10 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

  
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