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Author Topic:   The Awesome Obama Thread II
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 241 of 397 (654799)
03-04-2012 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by subbie
03-04-2012 2:26 PM


Re: A Little Judicial Activism
And I support your right to believe that.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by subbie, posted 03-04-2012 2:26 PM subbie has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 242 of 397 (654800)
03-04-2012 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by Phat
03-04-2012 10:24 AM


Re: A Little Judicial Activism
Private comments versus public comments.
I don't think that's the issue at all. Anger with the judge is not the issue either.
Some people get together with their buds and tell racist jokes and others don't. I personally don't have very much esteem for such jokes, and now I know which group the judge is in. I appreciate having the info that has leaked.
I don't have any intention of preventing the judge from making further comments, public or private, but I appreciate knowing what I know about the judge. If I have to deal with the fool, the knowledge may affect those dealings. It is also possible that the remarks may affect the judge's ability to hear certain cases in the future.
And the leaking of a joke circulated by email ought to be perfectly forseeable. Surely the judge, when determining liability for negligence would apply a similar standard to people who appear before him. If the judge were hearing an EOE case, what would he make of remarks made in a private boardroom?
Further, nobody has any duty to protect the judge from his own folly. That is the part of Jar's position that makes the least sense to me. There is no secret joke society that we are all sworn into.
Edited by NoNukes, : I make many grammar errors, but I cannot stand affect/effect mistakes.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Phat, posted 03-04-2012 10:24 AM Phat has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 243 of 397 (654858)
03-05-2012 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 229 by Shield
03-03-2012 8:59 PM


Re: What about the bitches?!
Dear Onifres evil twin, please bring back your lost brother, and leave.
Why would anything like that happen when I've sparked such a great debate on this thread? Witness how awesome the thread has developed. I'm not going to give myself 100% of the credit but, surely 99% of the credit?
A thank you would be nice. You can send it by PM if you like, as many have already, thanking me for all my lastest contribution. I get one from petrophysics every morning, oddly enough, and all I can say is you're welcome.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Shield, posted 03-03-2012 8:59 PM Shield has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 244 of 397 (654937)
03-05-2012 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by jar
03-04-2012 2:18 PM


Re: A Little Judicial Activism
jar replies:
The Judge has moved beyond that point, it is those who have their panties in a wad that are still at the pre-kindergarten level.
Crashfrog is right. You are just being a snit. The "n" is just a broken-off "h" in this case, I suppose.
BTW the origination of the term "panties in a wad" is, if not so completely a misogynist insult, still, nevertheless, a sexist epithet, cute as you might "apparently" think it is.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by jar, posted 03-04-2012 2:18 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by jar, posted 03-05-2012 6:35 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 245 of 397 (654940)
03-05-2012 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by xongsmith
03-05-2012 6:20 PM


Re: A Little Judicial Activism
Oh I used it not because I thought it was cute. As I said above, in this case the Judge was not being unintentionally insulting.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by xongsmith, posted 03-05-2012 6:20 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(1)
Message 246 of 397 (655742)
03-13-2012 9:18 AM


Really, some americans still approve of Obama?
quote:
March 11, 2012Afghan Killings: Troubled History of American Base
A veteran American soldier has been accused of carrying out one of the most heinous crimes in the decade-long Afghan war: the apparently unprovoked systemic slaughter of 16 Afghan civilians, including WOMEN and CHILDREN.
http://news.yahoo.com/...y-american-161221151--abc-news.html
quote:
March 11, 2012U.S. Sergeant Is Said to Kill 16 Civilians in Afghanistan
U.S. Sergeant Kills 16 Afghan Civilians, 9 of Them Children - The New York Times
U.S. Sergeant Kills 16 Afghan Civilians, 9 of Them Children - The New York Times
http://english.al-akhbar.com/...assacres-16-afghan-civilians
Obama wanted to keep american forces in Iraq beyond the new year. But the Iraqis wouldn't allow Obama's demand for immunity for american soldiers to carry out atrocities against women and children like the above.
So, who STILL believes american troops urinating on corpses, burning Korans, and murdering woman/children are winning the hearts and minds of the people in the middle-east? Who STILL believes american presence in Afghanistan is accomplishing something good?

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by jar, posted 03-13-2012 9:27 AM dronestar has not replied
 Message 248 by Panda, posted 03-13-2012 10:31 AM dronestar has replied
 Message 252 by Rahvin, posted 03-13-2012 11:51 AM dronestar has replied
 Message 253 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-13-2012 12:16 PM dronestar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 247 of 397 (655744)
03-13-2012 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by dronestar
03-13-2012 9:18 AM


Re: Really, some americans still approve of Obama?
So, who STILL believes american troops urinating on corpses, burning Korans, and murdering woman/children are winning the hearts and minds of the people in the middle-east? Who STILL believes american presence in Afghanistan is accomplishing something good?
Sorry but I don't see how any of that has anything to do with Obama or that Obama ever presented a "demand for immunity for american soldiers to carry out atrocities against women and children"

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by dronestar, posted 03-13-2012 9:18 AM dronestar has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 248 of 397 (655749)
03-13-2012 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by dronestar
03-13-2012 9:18 AM


Re: Really, some americans still approve of Obama?
dronester writes:
Obama wanted to keep american forces in Iraq beyond the new year. But the Iraqis wouldn't allow Obama's demand for immunity for american soldiers to carry out atrocities against women and children like the above.
So, because Iraq refused to give permission to allow US troops to abuse and kill it's citizens, Obama sent the US troops to Afganistan.
Does this mean that Afgahnistan has given permission for its civilians to be abused and murdered?
Dronester writes:
So, who STILL believes american troops urinating on corpses, burning Korans, and murdering woman/children are winning the hearts and minds of the people in the middle-east? Who STILL believes american presence in Afghanistan is accomplishing something good?
Well, it was good enough for George Bush.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by dronestar, posted 03-13-2012 9:18 AM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by dronestar, posted 03-13-2012 11:05 AM Panda has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 249 of 397 (655753)
03-13-2012 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 248 by Panda
03-13-2012 10:31 AM


Re: Really, some americans still approve of Obama?
Panda writes:
So, because Iraq refused to give permission to allow US troops to abuse and kill it's citizens, Obama sent the US troops to Afganistan.
Panda, you might have a slight time-line problem.
Panda writes:
Does this mean that Afgahnistan has given permission for its civilians to be abused and murdered?
Permission? PERMISSION? America doesn't need no stinking permission to carry out atrocities in Afghanistan. ("Obama to bombardier, Obama to bombardier, increase drone attacks on wedding and funeral parties")
Panda writes:
Well, it was good enough for George Bush.
Well, if George Jr. is Obama's moral equivalent, . . . alrighty then. (No wonder so many americans approve of Obama)
Edited by dronester, : added snark. Well, added MORE snark.
Edited by dronester, : clarity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Panda, posted 03-13-2012 10:31 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by Panda, posted 03-13-2012 11:33 AM dronestar has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 250 of 397 (655755)
03-13-2012 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by dronestar
03-13-2012 11:05 AM


Re: Really, some americans still approve of Obama?
dronester writes:
Panda, you might have a slight time-line problem.
I definitely have a problem with your timeline: it makes no sense - oh, unless your 2 statements were completely unconnected.
quote:
Obama wanted to keep american forces in Iraq beyond the new year. But the Iraqis wouldn't allow Obama's demand for immunity for american soldiers to carry out atrocities against women and children like the above.
Which would make that just a baseless assertion with only the most trivial of connections to the Afghan atrocity.
dronester writes:
But the Iraqis wouldn't allow Obama's demand for immunity for american soldiers to carry out atrocities
dronester writes:
Permission? PERMISSION? America doesn't need no stinking permission to carry out atrocities in Afghanistan.
Damn those powerful Iraqis!
They can make the US bend to their every whim!
Look: I can sense you flailing madly, but you are failing to hit anything.
It seems that you wanted to shout about Obama but instead found a single soldier committing murder.
Maybe you could start by showing how Obama bears any responsibility for that crime?
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by dronestar, posted 03-13-2012 11:05 AM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by dronestar, posted 03-13-2012 11:47 AM Panda has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 251 of 397 (655756)
03-13-2012 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by Panda
03-13-2012 11:33 AM


Re: Really, some americans still approve of Obama?
P writes:
I definitely have a problem with your timeline: it makes no sense
The person who believes "So, because Iraq refused to give permission to allow US troops to abuse and kill it's citizens, Obama sent the US troops to Afganistan" is a correct chronological time-line, also believes MY time-line is incorrect. Ok.
P writes:
Which would make that just a baseless assertion with only the most trivial of connections to the Afghan atrocity.
I am sure the parents of the murdered children feel the same, trivial, way.
P writes:
Damn those powerful Iraqis!
They can make the US bend to their every whim!
Yeah, so powerful are the Iraqis, even the whim of preventing the illegal and immoral invasion that killed up to one million innocent women and children was thwarted.
P writes:
It seems that you wanted to shout about Obama but instead found a single soldier committing murder.
Yeah, so far in this thread I only evidenced this ONE piece of information.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Panda, posted 03-13-2012 11:33 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by Panda, posted 03-13-2012 12:23 PM dronestar has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


(4)
Message 252 of 397 (655757)
03-13-2012 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by dronestar
03-13-2012 9:18 AM


Re: Really, some americans still approve of Obama?
dronester...I'm with you on being alternately disappointed and morally outraged with the Obama administration.
But really...you're showing the telltale signs of confirmation bias run amok. You're so pissed off at the Obama administrations moral failings that you're including events that cannot possibly be attributed to any President as justification for your outrage. Things like your link to the article about the US soldier who "flipped out" and massacred 16 Afghani civilians. Do you think the Obama administration ordered those killings? Do you believe that the Obama administration put into place policies that encouraged such atrocities? Are you seriously placing blame for a war crime committed counter to military policy that was not ordered from higher up where the criminal admits that his crime was wrong on the Obama administration merely because our military remains in Afghanistan? If a soldier steals a pack of gum in Kabul, is Obama responsible for that as well? Sometimes the buck stops at the individual who committed the actual crime, not the Commander in Chief.
Do you also believe that the Obama administration ordered the Koran to be burned?
Just because an event is morally outrageous and involved the US military doesn't mean the Obama administration bears responsibility.
crashfrog has swayed me on a great many of my complaints with the Obama administration - my blame should in many cases be more targeted at the American political system in general, or at the House and Senate.
I remain morally outraged at the use of drone attacks as counter-terrorism tools, though no longer because of arguments of sovereignty (as the Afghani and Pakistani governments have apparently authorized their use...though I strongly suspect those decisions were made under the threat of losing American financial aid). I also find Atty General Holder's "reasoning" on the matter of due process and the unjustified killing of accused criminals with no trial to be reprehensible and frightening.
But I think we need to take a deep breath and stop blaming Obama specifically for everything that makes us feel outraged.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by dronestar, posted 03-13-2012 9:18 AM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Modulous, posted 03-13-2012 1:33 PM Rahvin has replied
 Message 270 by dronestar, posted 03-13-2012 3:22 PM Rahvin has replied
 Message 306 by dronestar, posted 03-15-2012 9:33 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 253 of 397 (655760)
03-13-2012 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by dronestar
03-13-2012 9:18 AM


Re: Really, some americans still approve of Obama?
So, who STILL believes american troops urinating on corpses, burning Korans, and murdering woman/children are winning the hearts and minds of the people in the middle-east? Who STILL believes american presence in Afghanistan is accomplishing something good?
Well I guess I'm going to have to... because if its something that you are claiming against, then I have no reason but to doubt your position and go with the other. You spin stuff SOOO much that I cannot believe anything you type anymore. Its getting to the point where I'm just glancing over your posts because they're so ridiculous.
quote:
"ZOMG OBAMA IS THE WORSTEST THING EVAR!!1!1!!! HE'S MUDERING CHILDREN AS WE TYPE I TELL YOU!!"
Seriously, by default now, I consider the opposite of what you claim to be the truth.
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by dronestar, posted 03-13-2012 9:18 AM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by dronestar, posted 03-13-2012 12:54 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 254 of 397 (655761)
03-13-2012 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by dronestar
03-13-2012 11:47 AM


Re: Really, some americans still approve of Obama?
dronester writes:
The person who believes "So, because Iraq refused to give permission to allow US troops to abuse and kill it's citizens, Obama sent the US troops to Afganistan" is a correct chronological time-line, also believes MY time-line is incorrect. Ok.
And the person that quote mines my replies will misrepresent my position.
dronester writes:
Yeah, so powerful are the Iraqis, even the whim of preventing the illegal and immoral invasion that killed up to one million innocent women and children was thwarted.
So, now you claim the opposite?
If you could just keep your claims even slightly consistent, then maybe you wouldn't look like such a conspiracy nut.
dronster writes:
Panda writes:
Dronester writes:
Obama wanted to keep american forces in Iraq beyond the new year. But the Iraqis wouldn't allow Obama's demand for immunity for american soldiers to carry out atrocities against women and children like the above.
Which would make that just a baseless assertion with only the most trivial of connections to the Afghan atrocity.
I am sure the parents of the murdered children feel the same, trivial, way.
Again, you are clearly reaching for some kind of meaning - but you have pulled up short.
You have somehow mixed up your claim about Iraq with how the victims of a soldier murderer in Afghanistan feels.
dronester writes:
Yeah, so far in this thread I only evidenced this ONE piece of information.
Correct.
You have not evidenced anything else.
Maybe you could start by showing how Obama bears any responsibility for that crime?
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by dronestar, posted 03-13-2012 11:47 AM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by dronestar, posted 03-13-2012 1:07 PM Panda has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 255 of 397 (655770)
03-13-2012 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by New Cat's Eye
03-13-2012 12:16 PM


Re: Really, some americans still approve of Obama?
CS writes:
Seriously, by default now, I consider the opposite of what you claim to be the truth.
I think the truth is you are handsome, moral, and your personal hygiene beyond reproach.
Drone writes:
Who STILL believes american presence in Afghanistan is accomplishing something good?
From that to YOUR spin. You have not addressed my primary topic, instead:
CS writes:
You spin stuff SOOO much that I cannot believe anything you type anymore.
It feels I am the only one who is absolutely horrified about the atrocities committed by the american government/troops. The drone attacks have increased under Obama. I am repulsed. American aid still goes to nations with a human abuse/human rights violations. I am repulsed. Instead of American taxes going towards education and health care, taxes goes toward cluster bombs and weapons (america is the leading weapons seller of the WORLD). I am repulsed.
Yet, people declare me unjustified in my intelligence or emotions. Wow.
CS and Rahvin, but the one thing I don't understand is why you or other americans are not concerned. Tell me CS and Rahvin, on a scale of 1-10, how sad are you that an american troop murdered the Afghani children? There is no reason for him to be occupying Afghanistan. But under Obama's orders, troops are staying in a place where there is no respect for Americans. Corpse urinators, wedding/funeral attacks, murdering children all flow from the fact that the american government demands that they be there. Why?
Ok. I STRONGLY believe that for SOME people who support Obama (at least as the lesser of two evils), my continuing anti-Obama message disturbs their cognitive dissonance. They know, deep down, I am right and that they SHOULD do something about their support. Perhaps they don't know how, or they are too lazy. But regardless, it bugs them to their core. Their conscience prefers I'd just shut up. I get this.
Ok, so MAYBE my message is not working for some of these people. Are my messages at least connecting to the silent forum participants? What about just the lurkers? I don't know.
For the wall street protesters, the first stage was to inform about the injustices as Americans are pretty clueless as they get most of their info from corporate media. The second stage is the actions.
Am I at least enlightening some who only get their news from Fox News?
OTOH, if my postings are UNANIMOUSLY viewed as negative postings, can I temporarily open this thread up to CONSTRUCTIVE criticisms of my Obama postings? Let it be known, I've asked.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-13-2012 12:16 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-13-2012 2:00 PM dronestar has replied

  
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