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Author Topic:   Examples of new information
dan4reason
Junior Member (Idle past 522 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 01-03-2010


Message 1 of 10 (656066)
03-16-2012 12:30 PM


I would like some examples of how the process of natural selection and mutations created new information. This must not occur by playing around with gene switching.

Preferably this should occur by mutating a protein to gain a new function.

Examples must be specific in exactly what gene was mutated, what the gene does, and what it did.


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Message 2 of 10 (656098)
03-16-2012 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by dan4reason
03-16-2012 12:30 PM


If you describe the math you'd like to use for quantifying information I'll go ahead and promote this thread.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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dan4reason
Junior Member (Idle past 522 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 01-03-2010


Message 3 of 10 (656168)
03-16-2012 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
03-16-2012 2:17 PM


I am not too stingy with the definition of information.

I am specifically looking for a novel adaptation that performs a new task through natural selection and mutations. These mutations could for example change the DNA coding for an enzyme, in order for the enzyme to perform another useful function.

One can also show mutational adaptations conforming to information theory.
This link shows some mathematics behind information theory.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Tutorials/Info-Theory/


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Message 4 of 10 (656181)
03-16-2012 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by dan4reason
03-16-2012 7:30 PM


dan4reason writes:

This link shows some mathematics behind information theory.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Tutorials/Info-Theory/

Hey, my alma mater! How would you go about measuring the amount of information in a gene? For example, let's say the gene was this:

CAGTAGCCTAAC

How would you calculate its information content?

Edited by Admin, : Remove sig.


--Percy
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dan4reason
Junior Member (Idle past 522 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 01-03-2010


Message 5 of 10 (656198)
03-16-2012 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Admin
03-16-2012 8:46 PM


I have no clue, which is why I gave the first definition: Performing some new function not involved with gene switching. That should be a lot easier.
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Message 6 of 10 (656199)
03-16-2012 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by dan4reason
03-16-2012 9:19 PM


One common answer to your question about a new function is nylon eating bacteria, but the usual response is that the behavior was caused by a deletion rather than an addition. If your criteria is merely new function, then your question has already been answered. But if your criteria is new function by adding information to the genome then we need to know how you're measuring information. If by the number of nucleotides, a rather simplistic measure, then nylon eating bacteria do not qualify. But if by the number of alleles for the gene in the bacterial population, then nylon eating bacteria do qualify.

Your understandable reaction is probably, "Sheesh, I was just trying to ask a simple question." But as you must have guessed by now, the question has been raised here before, so I was hoping for a little clarification.

Edited by Admin, : Grammar.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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dan4reason
Junior Member (Idle past 522 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 01-03-2010


Message 7 of 10 (656205)
03-16-2012 10:51 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by dan4reason
03-16-2012 9:19 PM


How do you know that this came about by mutation instead of gene switching or from plasmids?
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Message 8 of 10 (656236)
03-17-2012 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by dan4reason
03-16-2012 10:51 PM


Hi Dan4Reason,

We're just going through the thread proposal process, not having a pre-discussion about your topic. Nylon-eating bacteria was just the example I chose to explain why the approach used to measure information is important. If we don't agree on the method for measuring genetic information then we'll have no criteria for judging success or failure in answering your question. If you can describe how you're measuring information I can promote your thread.

Or we can take the other approach you suggested of providing examples of mutations that produce new proteins.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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dan4reason
Junior Member (Idle past 522 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 01-03-2010


Message 9 of 10 (656308)
03-17-2012 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Admin
03-17-2012 7:46 AM


My issue with the example is that I want to make sure that adaptation actually came about by natural selection and mutations, not something else.

I not necessarily looking for mutations that make new proteins, I am looking for mutations that make proteins with new functions.

I can leave out the information part, and just ask for the above.


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Message 10 of 10 (656321)
03-17-2012 4:34 PM


Thread Copied to Biological Evolution Forum
Thread copied to the Examples of new information thread in the Biological Evolution forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.
  
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