The Awesome Obama Thread II

Hi Dronester,You are very vocal in hating what the Obama administration is doing and has done in Iraq and Afghanistan. I assume you also hate what Bush did in the first place to hand the situation over to Obama.I wonder what you would have done differently than Bush. I also wonder what you would have done differently had you been elected at the time Obama was, inheriting the two wars. And I wonder what you would do now, that would protect America, protect the innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan, and protect the troops that are over there.

I used to have daydreams about Obama being sworn in then immediately turning to Bush and Cheney and saying "Arrest those men."However, impeachment was never a real possibility. I smiled every time it was introduced (a couple times I believe) but never expected it to pass. There just weren't enough votes, and in that case, voting for it would have been a waste of time. It would have been political hara-kiri. PRESIDENT Obama inheritied the wars. They were ongoing when he was sworn in. SENATOR Obama was operating under different rules. I'm totally against the Iraq War. I'm a bit more agnostic on the merits of the Afghanistan War. Had I been in office, I would have voted against the AUMF. Once it passed, however, I probably would have ended up voting for funding. Why? Because defunding it with American servicemen and women in harm's way would have been a disaster. When a car is out of control, slamming on the brakes is often the worst thing you can do, you need to apply slow pressure and try to steer your trajectory back under control.Often in the real world, your ideals come into conflict, both with each other and with the situation as it is. Sticking to your ideals may seem praiseworthy, but if it results in a worse outcome, then your ideals mean nothing. It takes an intelligent and strong person to be able to navigate that sort of mine field, especially on the scale of a war, and they are bound to make mistakes. Exactly. This is the position PRESIDENT Obama found himself in. You are now criticizing his actions since being elected. I'm just curious as to how you would have gone about it, had you been placed in his position in January of 2009.

Apparently mine is as well. I'm asking for your plan, not merely pointing to the things Obama did that you disagree with. Tell me what you would have done with both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars from January 2009. This is SOP. We still have bases in Germany. We still have bases in Italy. We still have bases in South Korea.I would hope any bases built would be approved by the Afghani government. It would then give us a base of operations to continue trying to round up Al Qaeda cells in the area. It would also help us to continue helping the Afghani police and military secure their own country, should they ask for help.

I agree that the invasion of Iraq was immoral, probably illegal, and should not have been done. I also think the invasion of Afghanistan made some sort of sense. I don't know if I would have wanted it had I been president in 2001, but I probably would have deferred to my military advisors (which is sort of why they were appointed).If I had been a senator, again, I would have listened to people with military and intelligence sources. I may have voted for that invasion, I would have voted against the Iraq one.Once the wars were going on, it would have been a clusterfuck to defund it. It would have left American troops open to retaliation or attack. It would have severely undermined any possibility of an ordered withdrawal. So, I would have voted for funding, all the while trying to convince the president to order such an ordered withdrawal, or maybe I would have listened to those pesky military advisors. Perhaps I would have been wrong, as the evidence we have in hindsight shows, but seeing as how I'm human, and would have been living in the present without benefit of hindsight, that would be understandable.Had I been in power, I would not have authrorized rendition, nor would I have authroized the waterboarding and other forms of torture.But again, all this has nothing to do with what you think Obama shoudl have done the day of his inauguration.So, I've told you what I would have done leading up to and during the Bush presidency were I president or in congress. Can you please answer the question. I don't care what bad things were done, I care what you would have done differently.Frankly, it seems strange that you're having such a hard time answering this question. I know it's a toughie, but you seem to be very willing to throw Obama under the bus and call him a war criminal, but you have not advocated a single positive position. All you've said is that you're against A and against B. What are you for?

If you are attacked, you have the right to retaliate.Now, I agree that we've done many things, as a country, to provoke attacks like the ones on 9/11, I'm not removing all guilt from the feet of America. Not exactly. When we are in a military engagement, which we would have been as soon as the first boots touched ground in Afghanistan, then listening to people who have experience in military engagements is, in my opinion, probably a good idea. I'm not thrilled with all of the people he surrounded himself with as advisors. The economic advisors were likewise poor choices in my opinion. Well, with the possible exception of the military advisors (assuming you're talking about those who advise the government officials), Obama has no control over who keeps their jobs. Those decisions are made by the companies that employ those individuals. Also, if media people were going to be fired for making incorrect analyses, you'd quickly find that there would be no one willing to analyze anything, leaving us with even more vapid news commentary than we currently enjoy. There are a lot of analysts I disagree with, and I avoid Fox News like the plague, but having people with opposing viewpoints, and listening to their reasoning is a good thing.Besides, free speech isn't just a slogan. You and I both know that there is no liberal media, and that what corporate media wants is ratings. Common sense wants me to believe that. Fuel for the ships and aircraft to get out costs money. Bullets, clothes, food, energy, all cost money, and all are necessary to enact an ordered withdrawal that doesn't put our troops, nor the native population at risk. A power vaccuum is bad for those we leave behind. That's a good start. And if those people you surround yourself with agree that it's not so simple as saying, "Ok, everyone come home now." and that continuing the wars for a bit longer with an eye on an ordered withdrawal is the best way out of the current debacle?

Thanks. This would be very difficult to enforce. For one thing, how do you prove it was "knowingly" war propaganda? How do you define "war propaganda"? Would you be comfortable with someone you disagree with being in power and holding the enforcement of this law over your head? I'd like to consider myself one of these people. The thing with last resorts, though, is that you have them because sometimes they are necessary.Many of the military engagements this country has been involved in have been bad decisions (at best), but some of them have been worthwhile, IMHO.