Message 111 of 166 (656886) 03-22-2012 7:43 PM

Reply to: Message 107 by Jon 03-22-2012 6:41 PM

Well, a few years ago, I was responsible for creating the quotes, contacting the customer and getting ordered a deal worth $1,000,000. The rest of the process was automated, so you could subtract the cost of the servers and a percentage for the web development for the programs. Even if all of that comes to $250,000, which seems a mite high, I should have gotten a pretty substantial payday from that.

The fact of the matter is, people aren't paid based on what the company makes due to their contribution. They're paid the least amount that the comapny can get away with. That's why minimum wages need to be in place, to make sure the companies aren't gouging workers.

The question then becomes, how should we determine the minimum? I think a reasonable place is the cost of a single parent raising a single child. Some will still fall through the cracks (a single parent raising more than one child, for instance), but those can be helped with other programs like the ones you mentioned.

Otherwise, the minimum seems quite arbitrary.

Message 153 of 166 (657357) 03-27-2012 5:07 PM

Reply to: Message 152 by Artemis Entreri 03-27-2012 4:46 PM

So a baby and mother aren't a family. What about a baby and a single father?

You have some strange ideas about what a family is.

Good for you. How many children did you have to raise? Was it easy?

And this is what it comes down to. "It ain't my problem." Which flies in the face of all of the facts. For one thing, we live in a society, which implies that people will sacrifice for the others in the society.

But beyond that, people who are poor tend to be less educated. People who are poor and less educated tend to turn to crime to help themselves make ends meet. Crime can affect you directly, or indirectly in that it costs you money through taxes and insurance.

Also, children that can afford to have essentials, including a good education, tend to become more productive members of society, advancing our economy, including the social security you'll probably need when you're old.

So, it affects you and all of us, even if you can't quite dredge up the compassion for other human beings.

You're right. I can. I'm not making minimum wage.

I know people who have had to choose between food and clothing. So no, I'm not making it up.

Ahh, food stamps. There's also WIC available for women with children who are below the poverty line. These are great programs, but they're not enough.

Every example I've used is one that I've either witnessed first hand, or are obvious outcomes of the current set-up. All you've done is hand wave them away and claim that there's no one who can't afford to buy clothes.

Message 155 of 166 (658240) 04-03-2012 12:48 PM

Reply to: Message 154 by Artemis Entreri 04-03-2012 12:39 PM

Good.

You'll forgive me if I don't. And if you don't, I don't really care.

Well, I actually consider myself a liberal libertarian, too. I think people should be free to do as they wish, so long as they don't hurt others by doing it. I probably just have a different definition of hurt than you would.

I don't see a strawman. You said all of my examples were false and made up. I said they weren't because I've seen them actually occur. That's what we call "evidence."

Message 157 of 166 (658248) 04-03-2012 1:07 PM

Reply to: Message 156 by Artemis Entreri 04-03-2012 12:55 PM

Any evidence for this? I'd say its the greedy, me-first types (cough cough) who have made this country as shitty as its become.

But since we live in a free country, and I have freedom fo speech, I can advocate for what I believe will make this country better just as much as you do.

You know, you pay more for them now than you would if the minimum wage were raised. Right now, your taxes pay for welfare, food stamps, WIC, etc. If the minimum wage were enough that fewer people needed those programs, your taxes could be lowered.

And you seem to be stuck on assuming the order of things. People can have kids, then lose their good paying jobs and be forced to work at minimum wage.

The only way your argument makes any sense is if you argue that no one should have kids.

And I mean you no harm when I say FUCK YOU.