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Author Topic:   radical liberals (aka liberal commies) vs ultra conservatives (aka nutjobs)
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 9 of 300 (658757)
04-09-2012 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Artemis Entreri
04-09-2012 11:33 AM


Obvious!
AE writes:
1st of all where the hell is Columbia?
It is where Columbo was born...Duh!!

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Artemis Entreri, posted 04-09-2012 11:33 AM Artemis Entreri has seen this message but not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 11 of 300 (658761)
04-09-2012 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
04-08-2012 6:39 PM


Taz writes:
What's that? You imgregnated a 9 year old girl? That's ok, since you belong to a certain tribe, you are free to do whatever the hell you want to very young girls.
Yeah! - America should become:
Who cares what laws other countries have!
First, I want to see America bombing abortion clinics in Great Britain.
Then, I want to see America bombing Germany - because even if socialism isn't actually illegal, we all know it is wrong.
News just in: a 17 year old girl just gave birth in the UK. But the British police won't do a damn thing to the father because... wait for it... it's some kind of tradition in the UK and we have to respect and be polite to their 'back-watered' way of life. But only perverts would allow girls to have sex under the age of 18!!

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 04-08-2012 6:39 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Taz, posted 04-09-2012 9:48 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 16 of 300 (658829)
04-10-2012 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Taz
04-09-2012 9:48 PM


Taz writes:
Are you saying a 9 year old is mature enough to make the decision herself? What about a 5 year old?
Are you saying that they aren't and how did you come to that decision?
At what age are they mature enough and how did you come to that decision?
(I'll skip over the obvious slippery slope fallacy.)
Taz writes:
Your response is a perfect demo of what I meant by being in the extreme of anything.
And your response is a perfect demonstration of how you ignore any arguments that you cannot counter.
Are you going to invade Ireland to prevent people having sex before 18?
Are you going to invade Great Britain to prevent people having sex before 17?
Are you going to invade Denmark to prevent people having sex before 16?
Are you going to invade Austria to prevent people having sex before 15?
Are you going to invade Spain to prevent people having sex before 14?
Who died and made you fucking king?
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Taz, posted 04-09-2012 9:48 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Taz, posted 04-10-2012 2:54 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 39 of 300 (658904)
04-10-2012 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Taz
04-10-2012 2:54 PM


Taz writes:
Extreme. So, just because I don't condone impregnating a 5 or 10 year old then I must want to invade the country and make them have sex at 18. Yeah, again, perfect demo as to how you think in the extreme.
Well, that doesn't really answer any of my questions.
Perhaps you are just struggling with the hypocrisy you must display to criticise Colombia but not the rest of the world.
Perhaps you are struggling to understand how you can complain about Colombia but not Spain.
Taz writes:
Again, you're demonstrating my point exactly. Either I don't have an opinion on these things at all or I am king of the universe. 2 extreme positions.
You don't have a point.
You are simply demanding that countries that disagree with you should be 'corrected'.
And you can't even explain how you came to your 'opinions'.
Taz writes:
You seem to think that I'm also incapable of thinking anything beyond the ridiculous extreme positions that you can understand.
Wrong.
I think that you are incapable of thinking anything beyond your own ridiculous extreme positions, which you have more than clearly demonstrated.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Taz, posted 04-10-2012 2:54 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Taz, posted 04-10-2012 9:54 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 42 of 300 (658927)
04-11-2012 5:59 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Taz
04-10-2012 9:54 PM


Taz writes:
Um, go back and read what you wrote.
But you are the person refusing to read what I wrote.
Taz writes:
I said society shouldn't tolerate impregnating 10 year olds just because it's some tribal tradition.
Well, that doesn't really answer any of my questions.
Perhaps you are just struggling with the hypocrisy you must display to criticise Colombia but not the rest of the world.
Perhaps you are struggling to understand how you can complain about Colombia but not Spain.
Taz writes:
In other words, in your mind one can either believe anything goes OR we invade other countries to impose our beliefs on others.
Are you not wanting to impose your beliefs on other countries?
Taz writes:
And that's exactly what I've been trying to point out.
You don't have a point.
You are simply demanding that countries that disagree with you should be 'corrected'.
And you can't even explain how you came to your 'opinions'.
Taz writes:
You seem incapable of thinking beyond those 2 ridiculous extreme positions.
Wrong.
I think that you are incapable of thinking anything beyond your own ridiculous extreme position, which you have more than clearly demonstrated.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Taz, posted 04-10-2012 9:54 PM Taz has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 104 of 300 (659190)
04-13-2012 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Taq
04-12-2012 12:10 PM


Re: Human Rights
Taq writes:
Locke proposed three basic rights: life, liberty, and estate (property)
Well, if I bought some heroin for my kids from an undercover policeman, first they would take my cocaine from me (loss of property) and then they would imprison me (loss of liberty). Certain countries would then sentence me to death (loss of life).
Would that government be prosecuted for breaching my inalienable human rights?
Would the European Court of Human Rights demand I be released?
Would Amnesty International even raise an eyebrow?
Would even you object?

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Taq, posted 04-12-2012 12:10 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Taq, posted 04-13-2012 12:29 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 110 of 300 (659222)
04-13-2012 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Taq
04-13-2012 12:29 PM


Re: Human Rights
Taq writes:
It has been determined that drug trafficking threatens the human rights of others, namely the increase in crime rates. This is why drug commerce is punished.
So, my rights are superseded if they conflict with someone else's rights?
Perhaps I have misunderstood what inalienable human rights are.
I thought that they couldn't be taken away.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Taq, posted 04-13-2012 12:29 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Taq, posted 04-13-2012 3:10 PM Panda has replied
 Message 116 by Huntard, posted 04-13-2012 3:53 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 113 of 300 (659233)
04-13-2012 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Taq
04-13-2012 3:10 PM


Re: Human Rights
Taq writes:
You can be punished if your actions harm others. What is so hard to understand here?
Well, any punishment is a breach of my inalienable human rights.
But you seem to support people's inalienable human rights being removed.
Your statements have people's human rights added and removed at your whim, to suit your own needs.
"You have the right to liberty! But not if you do something that I don't like! Or that someone else doesn't like! Or that a government has deemed wrong!"
taq writes:
Self-defense is also one of those rights, your right to protect yourself from others. This is part of Locke's view of the social contract:
But inalienable means that they can't be taken away.
So if you say that they can be taken away, then they are not inalienable human rights.
They are simply subjective opinions that vary per person/country with no universal consistency or agreement.
Your claims that we "ought to" have human rights is as worthless as claiming that god "ought to" exist.
Wishing for things does not make them magically exist.
Human rights are no better than religious beliefs; founded on various traditions, habits and cultures with no actual basis in reality other than as a mental construct imagined by humans.
We are not "bound morally, by The Law of Nature" - we are disparate entities that have differing opinions on what people should be able to do.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Taq, posted 04-13-2012 3:10 PM Taq has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 125 of 300 (659251)
04-13-2012 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Huntard
04-13-2012 3:53 PM


Re: Human Rights
Huntard writes:
A question that pops into my mind is whose rights are violated by you taking heroin? Or by you allowing your children to take heroin?
A bit off-topic, so I'll keep it brief, but Taq cited drug trafficking as the 'problem' activity and not drug use.
But yes, it is a bit of a circular argument: "illegal drug" trafficking is illegal because "illegal drug trafficking" has bad consequences.
Making the drug legal would break that chain.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Huntard, posted 04-13-2012 3:53 PM Huntard has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 132 of 300 (659285)
04-14-2012 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Buzsaw
04-13-2012 10:11 PM


Re: Apocalypse
Those are crap prophesies since none of them have happened.
Perhaps that alone could be considered proof that your god doesn't exist.
Buzsaw writes:
You get the picture. I could go on and on.
Yes, you could.
But that has never made you right.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Buzsaw, posted 04-13-2012 10:11 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 147 of 300 (659562)
04-16-2012 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Taq
04-16-2012 3:36 PM


Re: A statist by any other name...
Taq writes:
You fear death. You also know that others fear death, and the actions that cause them to fear death. Therefore, you should not do those things.
One word: Dignitas.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Taq, posted 04-16-2012 3:36 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Taq, posted 04-17-2012 11:55 AM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 163 of 300 (659655)
04-17-2012 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Taq
04-17-2012 11:55 AM


Re: A statist by any other name...
Taq writes:
Panda writes:
Taq writes:
You fear death. You also know that others fear death, and the actions that cause them to fear death. Therefore, you should not do those things.
One word: Dignitas.
Do you want to die?
No.
But many people do.
Your claim (which I quoted) is patently false.
Taq writes:
P1: You fear death.
P2: Fear is a very, very negative experience. You don't want to experience fear of death.
P3: Empathy allows you to know that others fear death in the same way.
P4: You are able to determine which of your actions creates the same negative experience in others.
C: You ought not to cause fear of death in others since it is something that you don't want to experience.
That 'argument' is also false.
Premise 1 is false - Not everyone fears death. In fact, many people long for it.
Premise 2 is false - Many people enjoy being scared. People go on helter-skelter rides because they like being scared by death.
Premise 3 is false - Empathy fools you into thinking that other people feel the same way as you do.
Your conclusion: worthless.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Taq, posted 04-17-2012 11:55 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Taq, posted 04-18-2012 11:33 AM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 167 of 300 (659724)
04-18-2012 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by caffeine
04-18-2012 3:37 AM


Re: A statist by any other name...
caffeine writes:
All you're both arguing about is 'do right and wrong really exist'. No, of course not - they're things we make up.
I completely agree with your conclusion.
Rights are things that individuals/societies/cultures make up.
But that flies in the face of human rights being intrinsic, inalienable or universal - as Taq claims.
Instead they are transitory, conditional and subjective.
caffeine writes:
But we make them up for good reasons.
Sure, we make them up because they benefit our own society.
But different societies make up different rights.
There is no global consensus.
Rights seem to simply be an emergent property of having laws.
But different laws produce different rights and "no law" produces "no rights".
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by caffeine, posted 04-18-2012 3:37 AM caffeine has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Taq, posted 04-18-2012 12:17 PM Panda has not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 174 of 300 (659748)
04-18-2012 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Taq
04-18-2012 11:33 AM


Re: A statist by any other name...
Taq writes:
As a general rule, they do.
But since it is not 100% true, it undermines your claims of human rights being intrinsic.
Your claim (which I quoted) is blatantly false.
Perhaps you should try to correct it, rather than use weasel words to wriggle out of being wrong.
Taq writes:
People would not be on those rides if there was a 10% fatality rate.
But there is a fatality rate and people still go on those rides.
Premise 2 is still false regardless of the risk: the hazzard still exists and people still enjoy the fear of death.
Taq writes:
I never said that empathy was infallible. The point stands that we are able to determine that others fear death, and they do.
We can also tell that people don't fear death.
Premise 3 fails to support your conclusion.
In summary:
Your conclusion continues to be baseless and worthless.
Causing people to be scared of death may or may not be an ok thing to do. It depends.
There is no human right pertinent to deciding which is correct.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Taq, posted 04-18-2012 11:33 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by Taq, posted 04-18-2012 1:35 PM Panda has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 187 of 300 (659790)
04-18-2012 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Taq
04-18-2012 1:35 PM


Re: A statist by any other name...
Taq writes:
As a general rule, they do.
Panda writes:
But since it is not 100% true, it undermines your claims of human rights being intrinsic.
Taq writes:
It is intrinsic. It is still there even in those suffering pain. If they felt there was another option to end their pain I am sure they would take that option instead of death.
You agree it is not 100% therefore it is not intrinsic.
By definition, something is not intrinsic if not everyone has it.
You really need to look up what these words mean before you continue using them.
Taq writes:
There is not a 10% fatality rate, and the death rate is about the same as driving down the freeway.
Your reply has not even attempted to support your premise.
Your 2nd premise remains false.
Taq writes:
Panda writes:
We can also tell that people don't fear death.
Premise 3 fails to support your conclusion.
Then you seem to agree with me that empathy works.
Then you seem to agree with me that premise 3 fails to support your conclusion.
Panda writes:
Causing people to be scared of death may or may not be an ok thing to do. It depends.
There is no human right pertinent to deciding which is correct.
Taq writes:
How did you determine this?
Because if there was a pertinent human right then you would have stated it and not replied with the impossible demand for me to "prove a negative".
Even you (who continues to assert the existence of human rights) are unable to supply a single human right which isn't situational, conditional and subjective.
In summary: you have failed to substantiate any of your claims regarding human rights.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Taq, posted 04-18-2012 1:35 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Taq, posted 04-19-2012 11:10 AM Panda has replied

  
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