Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The 50-50-50-50-50 tax and economic plan.
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 1 of 75 (654430)
03-01-2012 1:47 PM


Republicans and libertarians talk about having a simple flat tax system.
Okay. Let's go further and combine the tax system with the benefit system to create one simple easy to administer plan:
  1. give every registered tax payer $50 per day (= $18,250.00 per year) and eliminate welfare, unemployment, social security and government pensions (including those of congress, etc). You can opt to collect this weekly, monthly or annually (at tax time).
  2. tax 50% of all earnings (wages, interest, dividends, etc) over
  3. $50k per year (ie you can earn up to a $86,500.00 annual salary before your net tax is greater than your net benefit)
  4. share 50% of tax collected with the states, based on population.
  5. mandatory retirement at 50.{abe: years of work? /abe}*
* deleted by popular demand ...
Something for everyone to hate ...
Fully fund medicare (A, B, C and D) for everyone. Let people buy "gap" insurance for what they want to cover in addition to the medicare coverage with a single payer no deductible plan.
Eliminate minimum wage requirements (this is covered by the $50/day benefit).
Eliminate welfare, social security, unemployment, food stamp, etc state and federal programs and management.
All tax funds left over after budget go to reduce the national debt. Once the debt is eliminated the tax rate can be adjusted annually to match the budget requirements.
The money sent to the states shall be used to:
  1. replace state and local (income, property, etc) taxes (abe) and sales taxes(/abe)
  2. pay for state budget
  3. fund local municipalities based on population
  4. pay for state projects (infrastructure maintenance and improvements, including federal highways, etc
  5. pay for high schools to all be equally funded and equipped on a per student basis.
Your paycheck will only have your wages shown: you are responsible for reporting income over $50,000.00 and paying the tax on it. All paycheck deductions are eliminated because they are paid by other means. Your W-2 will show the annual wages. The forms filed by the companies only need show annual wages paid.
With no minimum wage and simplified forms this truly benefits small businesses and promotes job growth, and it allows people to add to their minimum wage by working at will without losing benefits.
abe: it should also eliminate poverty /abe
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : (abe) per Rahvin comment
Edited by RAZD, : {abe} per reply 43
Edited by RAZD, : clrty
Edited by RAZD, : deleted retirement

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Rahvin, posted 03-01-2012 2:02 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 4 by Taq, posted 03-01-2012 3:24 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 9 by crashfrog, posted 04-22-2012 9:36 AM RAZD has replied
 Message 11 by Dr Jack, posted 04-22-2012 9:43 AM RAZD has replied
 Message 44 by RAZD, posted 12-28-2014 12:11 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 57 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-02-2015 4:10 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3 of 75 (654439)
03-01-2012 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Rahvin
03-01-2012 2:02 PM


Hi Rahvin,
In principle, though, your ideas make more social sense to me than any "flat tax" proposal I've seen from lolbertarians and Republicans.
Darn, you're supposed to hate flat taxes on principle ...
And what about sales tax? I don't see a need to charge tax for food, but maybe we should be taxed on obvious luxury goods?
Eliminate it -- how you define "obvious luxury" probably differs from Donald's. I meant to have this included in the state share as well. (see abe)
I'm also not sure property taxes should be abolished. I don't necessarily think that a poor family in a $100,000 home (hey, I live in CA, that's a mud hut here) should pay a lot in property tax, but I do think that Donald Trump should pay some taxes on the real estate he uses to pay for the dead muskrats he wears on his bald head.
Why should you pay tax multiple times on something you already own? Donald's chunk would come from his 50% on earnings over $50k.
This would also ensure that elderly\disabled\pensioners could stay in their houses and not be taxed into foreclosure.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Rahvin, posted 03-01-2012 2:02 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 5 of 75 (654445)
03-01-2012 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Taq
03-01-2012 3:24 PM


Hi Taq,
Prices will rise to meet the increase in income. ...
Prices may rise in response to greater spending, which means the economy will grow.
Why would the price of milk go up if demand is constant? It may end up being cheaper to produce some products (lower net wages paid by (especially small) business with no tax deductions included in costs), so small business profits can increase without price hikes.
You will see a spike in inflation that will wipe out any benefit from this plan.
Which will reduce debt load on borrowers, allowing them greater ability to pay off debts. Interest rates will drop.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Taq, posted 03-01-2012 3:24 PM Taq has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 6 of 75 (654448)
03-01-2012 4:49 PM


Companies are people, so ...
They too would be taxed on earnings over $50k/year, and small start up businesses would be eligible for $50/day benefits (based on work completed).
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 7 of 75 (660213)
04-22-2012 7:57 AM


Getting paid to consume
On another thread I mentioned that I read an article that said there will be a point where people will need to be paid to consume, due to population growth and productivity improvements, in order to maintain the economy as we know it.
This may seem an outlandish concept at first ... but wait:
Look at all the agricultural assistance programs, especially where farmers are paid to NOT grow crops in order to keep prices up and competitive so farmers can make a living? This is paying people to do nothing, isn't it? Of course those people continue to consume products, so the foot is already in the door. But why should farmers be the only ones to benefit from such programs?
If there are fewer jobs than job seekers, then shouldn't the same logic be applied and some job seekers should be paid to not work? Wouldn't this make the job market more competitive and provide the same kind of benefit that the farmers get?
So why not give everybody a "consumer stipend" of $50 per day in return for being a tax filing citizen of the USA and as a reward for being a law abiding (ie not in jail) member of the US economy? Or think of it as a dividend for being a share-holder in the US economy.
This would eliminate poverty in the US and give everyone a boost.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : workers
Edited by RAZD, : law
Edited by RAZD, : poverty

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 10 of 75 (660223)
04-22-2012 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by crashfrog
04-22-2012 9:36 AM


Hi crashfrog,
What does "mandatory retirement" mean?
It means you stop working for somebody else. It means executives step down and let the next generation take the reins.
But mostly it's included here because americans seem to have some kind of aversion to the whole idea of having lots of leisure time ...
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by crashfrog, posted 04-22-2012 9:36 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by crashfrog, posted 04-22-2012 1:55 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 12 of 75 (660226)
04-22-2012 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Dr Jack
04-22-2012 9:43 AM


actual results of actual programs ...
Hi Mr Jack
Let's see some numbers then? I strongly suspect that, in fact, the system you're suggesting just plain won't work. Citizen income (aka negative income tax systems) just don't stand up in the cold light of day.
It's always easy to assert your opinion, isn't it?
Do you know of instances where such programs have been used in complete saturation of the population?
Redirect Notice
'@Livable4All - 1975 Mincome Article (newspaper article discussing the program)
Livable Income For Everyone - Manitoba Mincome
quote:
The Manitoba Mincome Study;
Even a small Guaranteed Income has dramatic positive effects on society.
The Ottawa meeting decided to refer to the concept of eliminating poverty by giving everyone enough money to look after their needs, as a Guaranteed Annual Income. This is what it is most often known by these days, although every group seems to have its own preferred term. In the 1970s it was called 'Mincome' and the favored way of administering it was by a Negative Income Tax (NIT) , a tax refund to anyone whose income fell below a cut off line, to bring it back above the line.
In response to this, the Canadian government held its own study. The residents of Dauphin, Manitoba and surroundings, were chosen to be the guinea pigs. The experiment ran from 1974 to 1978. ...
Evelyn Forget ... decided to try and do a study of the Manitoba Mincome study but ran into many obstacles. ... It turned out to be sitting in 1800 boxes in a warehouse in Winnipeg.
It had never been digitalized ...
So she tried a different approach. She looked at census and other information for Dauphin at the same time as the mincome program. She has discovered a lot. Kids stayed in school longer in Dauphin in 1974-78 than before or after. Hospital admissions dropped for Dauphin against her control group and regressed after 1978.
During the study, the divorce rate did not change at all and the pregnancy rate declined. But the Mincome was paid to families, not individuals. ...
Forget says the flaws in the study were; there was limited funding for it. It was run by labor economists who were only interested in labor market effects and considered social impacts to be 'peripheral'. One interesting thing about the Dauphin experiment was that many people refused to participate in the study because it did not pay enough.
Forget found a broader effect on society than merely those receiving the money. When she started tracking the next generation descendants of those who had lived in Dauphin at the time of the study, they also did better than the controls. She thinks those getting the income could keep their kids in school longer, and this convinced other kids to stay longer, and that education was a 'transmitter' of prosperity to the next generation.
Looks to me like (a) your assertion is false and (b) that there are many other (social) benefits for the people than just increased income: better health and better education.
Better health also leads to lower health costs, and the better education leads to better paying jobs.
quote:
We now also have the BIGNAM experiment. This is taking place in the African country of Namibia; Basic Income Grant Namibia. The most important finding in all these studies was that when people had the grants, they worked more, not less, and they made more money.They could refuse sub-standard employment and decide for themselves the most productive use of their time. As well, all social indicators are more positive; school attendance, divorce rates, crime rates, alcoholism; the effects rub off on people who are not even getting the income.
bold added ...
Again, this falsifies your assertion.
... that's two studies of a saturation program that show similar positive economic results AND additional social benefits.
quote:
The Guaranteed income experiments of the 1970s are all dated now. Society and the economy have changed in many ways. An increase in the divorce rate would no longer considered such a problem. As well, society is coming to see the problem as not, how to get people working more, but on how to get people working less. People now work so hard they are damaging their health, yet they are earning less all the time. We are producing so much it is depleting the natural environment.
Poverty elimination activists have moved away from the NIT model and want to see a flat grant system such as BIGNAM. They want to see it go to individuals, and not to family units, to increase women's independence. Yet we still need the evidence that studies such as Manitoba Mincome clearly give; that even a small Guaranteed Income has dramatic positive effects on society. And it is about social effects, not 'labor market' effects. We urged Evelyn to complete her study of the study, and assured her that we will not Forget about her.
It not only gets people out of poverty, and improve their health and education, it gives them the independence to control their lives.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : added

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Dr Jack, posted 04-22-2012 9:43 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Dr Jack, posted 04-22-2012 1:42 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 15 of 75 (660234)
04-22-2012 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Dr Jack
04-22-2012 1:42 PM


Re: No numbers anywhere
Hi Mr Jack
Message 11: ... Citizen income (aka negative income tax systems) just don't stand up in the cold light of day.
Why don't you provide evidence that this is true rather than just an assertion.
Rather difficult imho, due to the information that I have provided which shows it is false.
Now we can argue about the actual amounts provided, but not about whether or not this does work in general -- we have different cases on hand that show it does.
Numbers, RAZD. Show us some numbers indicating that your apparently arbitrary set of 50s adds up to coherent budget.
Look up ther numbers in the references to see what they used (the information is there). Then we can argue about the effect of different $$ amounts eh?
I also repeat:
quote:
Forget says the flaws in the study were; there was limited funding for it. It was run by labor economists who were only interested in labor market effects and considered social impacts to be 'peripheral'. One interesting thing about the Dauphin experiment was that many people refused to participate in the study because it did not pay enough.
In other words more people would have participated if the numbers they used had been higher ...
We also know from the BIGNAM results that the return was more than the investment, which would also indicate that more investment would increase returns.
Do you have any evidence to counter that?
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Dr Jack, posted 04-22-2012 1:42 PM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Dr Jack, posted 04-22-2012 2:31 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 19 of 75 (660246)
04-22-2012 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Dr Jack
04-22-2012 2:31 PM


Numbers in the report
Hi Mr Jack,
So.... still no numbers?
So ... still no evidence that feeding the bottom economic level doesn't work?
Message 11: ... Citizen income (aka negative income tax systems) just don't stand up in the cold light of day.
Is this or is this not just your assertion of your personal opinion.
Come on, RAZD, you're the one making the proposal, show us something? Why so shy
There are numbers in the linked report on the Canadian town for what actually worked there: why so shy about reading it to see what they are and then make an informed reply?
Message 18: Working out basic numbers shouldn't be that hard, I'm not looking for a detailed budget plan.
Read the report and then we can talk. The full report is a pdf, so it is difficult to copy.
I've provided enough information to show that these programs work, you have just voiced your opinions and one-liner snippets. Read the report and get back to me on where you think it would break down.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : split post
Edited by RAZD, : pdf

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Dr Jack, posted 04-22-2012 2:31 PM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Dr Jack, posted 04-23-2012 3:54 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 20 of 75 (660248)
04-22-2012 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Dr Jack
04-22-2012 3:25 PM


early retirement helps reduce underemployment
Hi again Mr Jack
Also, mandatory retirement at 50 is bonkers, anti-libertarian and cruel.
LOL. Being told to get out and enjoy yourself is cruel?
When I was growing up in the 50's and 60's there was a lot of talk about how people would cope with the increased leisure time that improved production would generate. One way proposed was early retirement expanding the "golden years" ... and there are other places in the world that have lower retirement ages than the US.
Retirement - Wikipedia
quote:
The "standard" retirement age varies from country to country but it is generally between 50 and 70 (according to latest statistics, 2011). ...
There are also lots of advice websites on how to retire at 50 ... so how is that bonkers?
quote:
Message 1: 5. mandatory retirement at 50.
Something for everyone to hate ...
One way to initiate a debate is to take an extreme position ...
One way to mock a particular argument is to take it to an extreme position ...
[qs]
Also, mandatory retirement at 50 is ... anti-libertarian ....
So? To me this is just more evidence that libertarian policies are bonkers ... .
Remember that we have more job seekers than we have jobs, thus getting people to retire earlier is one way to allow everyone in the work force to benefit.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : T

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Dr Jack, posted 04-22-2012 3:25 PM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Buzsaw, posted 04-22-2012 6:52 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 22 by crashfrog, posted 04-22-2012 9:06 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 36 by Dr Jack, posted 04-23-2012 5:10 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 24 of 75 (660257)
04-22-2012 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by crashfrog
04-22-2012 9:06 PM


what's the problem?
Hi crashfrog,
Forcing experienced people into undesired permanent unemployment isn't the way to grow the economy.
But this is your opinion that it is undesired and your use of "poison the well" words (permanent unemployment => no income => bad connotations, cue the fox news demonizing squad ...).
When the point is that it is possible to do other things you have wanted to do but put off because you were working.
Yeah, RAZD. It's actually cruel to lock people out of gainful, ...
Except you still have $50/day/person income -- income that is in excess of poverty level pay, income that is more than many people get from pensions or social security when they retire at 67 (or will it be over 70 for your age group, cruelly making you work more years than your parents) and considerably more than minimum wage from part time work driving a bus ...
Are you saying that it is not possible to live comfortably on $50/day?
Or that you only get joy\happiness from work? How protestant.
Suppose that you're a 49-year-old working as a manager ...
That has failed to have any backup trained and educated because they are a lousy at delegation of tasks and can't plan more than a week ahead? Perhaps you need to be replaced but have too high an opinion of yourself to see it?
Paint, write books, travel, take care of grandkids, volunteer to the peace corps, mentor at schools, walk from one side of the country to the other, or any number of thousands of other things. There are more rewarding things to do than just working for pay week after week. Do it before you are too beat up by age and disease to be able to do it.
We can afford to lighten up the work load because there are more job seekers than jobs, we can afford to share the wealth of production improvements and an economy stimulated by increased spending.
Heck you could also have mandatory 50 days of holidays\vacation per year for workers ...
Countries Compared by Labor > Vacation > Minimum vacation time around the world > Legally required. International Statistics at NationMaster.com
quote:
France 5 weeks + 2 weeks of RTT (Reduction du Temps de Travail, in English : Reduction of Working Time) = 7 weeks. The most significant vacation time of any country in the world
That's 49 days in France, and the RTT is because there are more job seekers than jobs ...
Finland has 35, several countries have 30+ days.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : clrty
Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by crashfrog, posted 04-22-2012 9:06 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by crashfrog, posted 04-23-2012 8:39 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 25 of 75 (660258)
04-22-2012 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Buzsaw
04-22-2012 6:52 PM


heavens ... Buzsaw and crashfrog agreeing???
Hi Buzsaw,
Heaven forfend, Buz, that you need to be nudged to set aside worldly affairs and have to take up a spiritual cause ... your personal "trip to mecca" if you will ...
Curiously it seems I have united Buzsaw and crashfrog ... a rather remarkable accomplishment eh?
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Buzsaw, posted 04-22-2012 6:52 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 26 of 75 (660259)
04-22-2012 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Shield
04-22-2012 9:18 PM


nine nine nonsense
Hi rbp
NINE NINE NINE
Exactly, just what is being mocked and parodied and taken to an extreme position that should make the skin crawl of all fixed tax proponentists.
You want a flat tax ...? try this one for size eh?
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Shield, posted 04-22-2012 9:18 PM Shield has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 28 of 75 (660262)
04-23-2012 3:49 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Coyote
04-22-2012 10:57 PM


Re: Funding
Hi Coyote,
I'm curious; is there enough money to do this?
Is there enough money to pay ceo's million dollar salaries and bonuses? Yes. Would that money be subject to the flat tax? Yes Is this a "lot more" money than is currently paid in taxes by these people? Yes.
How do the figures come out?
Hard to find usable data, without mixing apples and oranges, but let's take a wild swing at it:
United States federal budget - Wikipedia
US federal spending is currently on the order of 3.6 Trillion $US for 2011, with 0.7 Trillion $US for Social Security
2012 United States federal budget - Wikipedia
quote:
The enacted budget contained $2.469 trillion in receipts and $3.796 trillion in outlays, for a deficit of $1.327 trillion.[40]
3.8 Trillion $US for 2012
Less 0.7 Trillion $US est for 2012 Social Security cost (replaced) = 3.1 Trillion $US needed to pay for current allocations.
The Gross Domestic Product was:
List of countries by GDP (nominal) - Wikipedia
quote:
List by the International Monetary Fund (2011)[2]
GDP Millions $US
1. United States 15,094,025
15 Trillion $US in the GDB subject to tax
50% = 7.5 Trillion $US
Less current 3.1 Trillion $US allocated outlays = 4.4 Trillion $US
The Current Population of the U.S.A.
quote:
Updated July 21, 2011
The current U.S.A. population is over 311 million people
311 million x 365 x 50 = 5,675,750 million or 5.7 Trillion $US
Cutting this back to 4.4 Trillion would mean
4,400,000 / 311 / 365 = ~$39 per hour instead of $50 or $14,235 per year
Still more than poverty level wages, and about double the amount in the Canadian study.
Certainly in terms of first order of magnitude approximations it works.
A 10% increase in GDP from the stimulation of the economy would add 1.5 Trillion $US of which 0.7 Trillion would be added to the 4.4 Trillion $US bringing it closer:
5,100,000 / 311 / 365 = ~$45 per hour instead of $50 or $16,425 per year.
Another 10% increase in GDP in the following year and you are there with gravy.
This does not include the cost savings from combining IRS, welfare, social security, unemployment etc administrations all into one simplified easy to manage program.
This does not include state income tax revenues and other elements.
Could we start with $30/day/person ($10,950/year) and have a surplus? This is closer to the amount in the Canadian study.
Could we cut other government programs (military budget)?
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : math fix

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Coyote, posted 04-22-2012 10:57 PM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Dr Jack, posted 04-23-2012 5:00 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 30 of 75 (660264)
04-23-2012 4:03 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Dr Jack
04-23-2012 3:54 AM


Re: Numbers in the report
Hi Mr Jack,
I can see no numbers indicating the system provided a balanced budget in the report. Perhaps you can point them out?
IIRC they ran into budget issues when the government changed and that's why the program was canceled and boxed up before any evaluations were done.
... your numbers would be different anyway.
Yeah, that's just a first blush look and doesn't incorporate all the proposals. At least it's not out of the ballpark.
The Canadians reduced the benefit by 50% of any earnings and a system like that (25%?) would reduce the expenditure but it would be very difficult to figure out how much.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : ..

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Dr Jack, posted 04-23-2012 3:54 AM Dr Jack has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024