Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9162 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 916,352 Year: 3,609/9,624 Month: 480/974 Week: 93/276 Day: 21/23 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The 50-50-50-50-50 tax and economic plan.
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


(1)
Message 11 of 75 (660224)
04-22-2012 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
03-01-2012 1:47 PM


Let's see some numbers then? I strongly suspect that, in fact, the system you're suggesting just plain won't work. Citizen income (aka negative income tax systems) just don't stand up in the cold light of day.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 03-01-2012 1:47 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by RAZD, posted 04-22-2012 10:29 AM Dr Jack has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 13 of 75 (660231)
04-22-2012 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by RAZD
04-22-2012 10:29 AM


No numbers anywhere
Numbers, RAZD. Show us some numbers indicating that your apparently arbitrary set of 50s adds up to coherent budget.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by RAZD, posted 04-22-2012 10:29 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by RAZD, posted 04-22-2012 2:13 PM Dr Jack has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


(1)
Message 16 of 75 (660236)
04-22-2012 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by RAZD
04-22-2012 2:13 PM


Re: No numbers anywhere
So.... still no numbers?
Come on, RAZD, you're the one making the proposal, show us something? Why so shy?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by RAZD, posted 04-22-2012 2:13 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Rahvin, posted 04-22-2012 3:12 PM Dr Jack has replied
 Message 19 by RAZD, posted 04-22-2012 5:32 PM Dr Jack has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


(1)
Message 18 of 75 (660239)
04-22-2012 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Rahvin
04-22-2012 3:12 PM


Re: No numbers anywhere
Working out basic numbers shouldn't be that hard, I'm not looking for a detailed budget plan.
I'd rather see some discussion on those lines rather than continually insisting on numbers that would require a Congressional committee and 6 months of research to calculate.
I'd like the moon on a stick; but since I can't get it I see little point discussing the political impacts of my stick-moon antics. Would a citizens income be a grand idea if it was practical? Aye, I think it would. Do I think it would be practical, at all, no I don't.
Also, mandatory retirement at 50 is bonkers, anti-libertarian and cruel.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Rahvin, posted 04-22-2012 3:12 PM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by RAZD, posted 04-22-2012 5:44 PM Dr Jack has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 29 of 75 (660263)
04-23-2012 3:54 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by RAZD
04-22-2012 5:32 PM


Re: Numbers in the report
I can see no numbers indicating the system provided a balanced budget in the report. Perhaps you can point them out?
I'd note as well that since you've presented your own set of parameters, your numbers would be different anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by RAZD, posted 04-22-2012 5:32 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by RAZD, posted 04-23-2012 4:03 AM Dr Jack has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 35 of 75 (660291)
04-23-2012 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by RAZD
04-23-2012 3:49 AM


Re: Funding
Yay, numbers!
15 Trillion $US in the GDB subject to tax
50% = 7.5 Trillion $US
Your proposal calls only for 50% income tax, GDP is not equal to the total of everyone's income. You will need additional tax codes to achieve a tax take of 50% of GDP.
Worse, you've exempted the first $50k everyone earns; that will have a significant effect in reducing the total tax you're taking.
Could we start with $30/day/person ($10,950/year) and have a surplus? This is closer to the amount in the Canadian study.
The Canadian study was earlier in time, wasn't it? Are you accounting for inflation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by RAZD, posted 04-23-2012 3:49 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 36 of 75 (660292)
04-23-2012 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by RAZD
04-22-2012 5:44 PM


Re: early retirement helps reduce underemployment
Hi RAZD
LOL. Being told to get out and enjoy yourself is cruel?
Yes, it is. There's a barrel of psychological research that shows that performing useful work is vital to well-being. People have a deep seated need to be useful. Pissing about is all very well, but it gets old fast; especially if you're low on funds - which people certainly will with only a few years to save for retirement and relying on your citizens income for all their needs.
Moreover, 50 is damn young. 50-year olds are not in their dotage; without the over 50s, science has just lost all its professors, for example. And heaven help you if you've ever thought to change careers; there's just no time. I'll be just shy of 40 when I finish my PhD, forced retirement at 50 would mean just ten years in which to actually work in science. Forcing people out at 50 means taking a whole load of people at the peak of their careers and telling them, no, you can't carry on doing what you love, what gives you meaning in life and what you want to do.
There are also lots of advice websites on how to retire at 50 ... so how is that bonkers?
There are doubtless many people who would be happy to retire at 50; that doesn't mean that forcing the rest to do so is okay.
So? To me this is just more evidence that libertarian policies are bonkers ... .
Heh I meant libertarian in the old fashioned sense of freedom; not the howling crazies of the American right.
Remember that we have more job seekers than we have jobs, thus getting people to retire earlier is one way to allow everyone in the work force to benefit.
Sure, but it also places the burden of paying for everyone who has been forced out of work onto the young.
One way to initiate a debate is to take an extreme position ...
One way to mock a particular argument is to take it to an extreme position ...
Indeed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by RAZD, posted 04-22-2012 5:44 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by frako, posted 04-24-2012 5:10 AM Dr Jack has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 38 of 75 (660303)
04-24-2012 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by frako
04-24-2012 5:10 AM


Re: early retirement helps reduce underemployment
Writing computer games.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by frako, posted 04-24-2012 5:10 AM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by frako, posted 04-24-2012 10:08 AM Dr Jack has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024