|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total) |
| |
popoi | |
Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Genesis 1:1-5 — Day One | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
we can say with some confidence that at least the infrared section of the electromagnetic spectrum existed. Why?Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Panda Member (Idle past 3713 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
CJ writes:
Heat.
Why?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yup, that the water existed and was without form indicates that it was above absolute zero and so it would radiate heat.
So we know that at least part of the electromagnetic spectrum existed. We also know that gravity existed.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coragyps Member (Idle past 735 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
And if the water was "without form," it sounds like it was liquid or vapor. All the ice I've ever seen had some shape or the other.....
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
What question does the OP ask. It seems to me that the explicit question, namely, why there was no light when the earth was made, is actually answered by CreationJon.
It also seems clear that the OP is not an invite to discuss reasons why CreationJon's theory of origins is wrong. It's pretty clear what Genesis actually says. So why should this thread last more than three posts before the subject is exhausted? Is there actually anything more to say that would actually be on topic?Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
I am saying that before there were the necessary matters and energies light could not have existed. Among the things that are mentioned in the first few verses of Genesis, which are things that must exist before light could have existed?Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
It is in our world, fully created and operational, that all things with heat (molecular motion) emit infrared radiation.
I don't see why this has to have been the case early on, when the molecules may have simply moved without emitting radiation. Even so, however; if there was infrared radiation, this is still not evidence that there must have been light before the creation of the Earth. CJLove your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
Re: The Light was Good What question does the OP ask. It seems to me that the explicit question, namely, why there was no light when the earth was made, is actually answered by CreationJon. It also seems clear that the OP is not an invite to discuss reasons why CreationJon's theory of origins is wrong. It's pretty clear what Genesis actually says. So why should this thread last more than three posts before the subject is exhausted? Is there actually anything more to say that would actually be on topic? It is the standard scientific model that the Sun was first to form and from its circulating dust clouds came the planets. Since the Sun is a source of light, the conclusion cannot be avoided that there had to be light before there was a planet Earth. This does not agree with the Official account as given in Genesis, which states that the Earth was first made and then light. Nor does it fit with the evidence that there cannot be light without anything for light to illuminate and without any of the necessary matters or energies for supporting light's existence. Clearly these matters and energies (the formless Earth) existed before light, contrary to the standard scientific opinion. CJLove your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member
|
nor does it fit with the evidence that there cannot be light without anything for light to illuminate Evidence? What evidence? You yourself have not presented any evidence for the above quote proposition. What the OP uses to advance this proposition is an un-evidenced claim that does not make sense to have light before there is an earth in a universe where nothing happens without a purpose. This logic can be questioned, but before we get around to questioning the logic, we can note that the logic is argument and not evidence. All that is required to have electromagnetic radiation in this universe is for an unbound electron to change direction, or otherwise accelerate. Is there some evidence that any such thing is missing prior to the creation of the earth? Is there any denial of the existence of electrons during the time covered by Genesis 1:1-2? The answer is no. Other than your recitation of what Genesis says, and your desire to hold the order of creation described therein to be true, you've got nothing. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
All that is required to have electromagnetic radiation in this universe is for an unbound electron to change direction, or otherwise accelerate. Which means you need first electrons (i.e., matter (= unformed Earth)).Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
Which means you need first electrons (i.e., matter I note that you skipped most of my message in order to address this part. I also note that you have resorted back to simply quoting Genesis. There is no argument from me regarding whether Genesis describes that the earth existed before God said let there be light. If that is your only point, and you are not challenging any scientific evidence to the contrary, then this thread has little, if any point. Yes, the science based account does disagree with Genesis as interpreted by Creationists. Who did not know that? For What It's Worth: The cosmic background microwave radiation is evidence that electromagnetic radiation consistent with a temperature of around 3000K was prevalent a few hundred thousand years or so after the BB. That would be about 4.6 billion years before the sun or earth existed. Edited by NoNukes, : FWIWUnder a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
|
But we know we had more than just electrons, we had the heavens and the earth and water and gravity and helium and oxygen and protons and neutrons and the question is how we got heavens and the earth and water and gravity and helium and oxygen and protons and neutrons and electrons before light?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Panda Member (Idle past 3713 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined:
|
CJ writes:
If our current physical laws are not necessarily applicable and you are unable to provide an alternative list of laws then there is little else to say. It is in our world, fully created and operational, that all things with heat (molecular motion) emit infrared radiation. I don't see why this has to have been the case early on, when the molecules may have simply moved without emitting radiation. Did/can light exist before matter?I could only answer that question if I knew which laws were in effect. Without that additional information, all I can say is: "It depends on which physical laws existed." It is one of the problems with "God-did-it": there is no explanation to discuss. Edited by Panda, : No reason given.Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
The cosmic background microwave radiation is evidence that electromagnetic radiation consistent with a temperature of around 3000K was prevalent a few hundred thousand years or so after the BB. That would be about 4.6 billion years before the sun or earth existed. Assuming a Big Bang.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
But we know we had more than just electrons, we had the heavens and the earth and water and gravity and helium and oxygen and protons and neutrons and the question is how we got heavens and the earth and water and gravity and helium and oxygen and protons and neutrons and electrons before light? Ahh. Well, the simple answer is that Light was just created after many of those other things (gravity might be an exception). We have matter existing before light; maybe not all matter and certainly not in all forms, but there was matter there first, nonetheless. CJ Edited by CreationJon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024