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Author | Topic: Genesis 1:1-5 — Day One | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
CreationJon writes:
Ahh. Well, the simple answer is that Light was just created after many of those other things (gravity might be an exception). We have matter existing before light; maybe not all matter and certainly not in all forms, but there was matter there first, nonetheless. doesn't it worry you at all that you're just making this up? "Gravity might be an exception" You think? Light is just the part of the electromagnetic spectrum that we can see. The only thing special about it is that we have receptors in our eyes to detect it. What about the rest of the spectrum that we can't see? Was that there too?Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Jon Inactive Member |
What about the rest of the spectrum that we can't see? Was that there too? As I already told jar, that's not something that's easy to say. However, I might suspect that it wasn't there at all. It would certainly fit with the notion of the formless matter being 'void' (Gen 1:2). CJLove your enemies!
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But nothing in your message answers the question I asked; "...the question is how we got heavens and the earth and water and gravity and helium and oxygen and protons and neutrons and electrons before light?"
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Well, the simple answer is that Light was just created after many of those other things (gravity might be an exception). We have matter existing before light; maybe not all matter and certainly not in all forms, but there was matter there first, nonetheless. When are you going to get around to the evidence? Just in case you have forgotten, let me remind you that you are posting in the science forums. Simply citing the Bible and then going on with endless speculation is not suitable here.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Assuming a Big Bang. For which there is a model and evidence. Where is yours?Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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CreationJon writes: However, I might suspect that it wasn't there at all. It would certainly fit with the notion of the formless matter being 'void So, you reckon that most of the electromagnetic spectrum from gamma rays (sub 0.1nm) to long waves (1000m+) existed but the visible spectrum - the tiny bit between 400nm and 700nm - was missing? Doesn't that sound just a bit daft to you?Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Jon Inactive Member |
So, you reckon that most of the electromagnetic spectrum from gamma rays (sub 0.1nm) to long waves (1000m+) existed but the visible spectrum - the tiny bit between 400nm and 700nm - was missing? Well that's not what I said. Try again. CJLove your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
But nothing in your message answers the question I asked; "...the question is how we got heavens and the earth and water and gravity and helium and oxygen and protons and neutrons and electrons before light?" I guess an even better question is: Do we need light for those things to exist?Love your enemies!
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Perhaps it is, but it is not the question I asked. I asked; "...the question is how we got heavens and the earth and water and gravity and helium and oxygen and protons and neutrons and electrons before light?"
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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CreationJon writes: Well that's not what I said. Try again. My apologies, I missread.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Jon Inactive Member |
I asked; "...the question is how we got heavens and the earth and water and gravity and helium and oxygen and protons and neutrons and electrons before light?" Well I suppose the most plain answer to that is that we just did. Matters and energies existed before light. And that seems to be all there is to it. We know that light requires various matters and energies to exist; so it would be silly to suggest that it can exist prior to those matters and energies. Without any other evidence, it's just fanciful guesswork and special pleading to say that light came about before matters and energies (unformed Earth, remember) when logic and evidence dictates that it be otherwise. CJLove your enemies!
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You keep making the claim that "light requires various matters and energies to exist" but keep forgetting to explain what evidence or reasoning supports that assertion.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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vimesey Member (Idle past 99 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
Creation Jon writes: We know that light requires various matters and energies to exist; so it would be silly to suggest that it can exist prior to those matters and energies. Well, I am no scientist, and it would be wrong of me to even try to drill down into the detail of precisely how light (and other wavelengths on the electromagnetic spectrum) are emitted under various circumstances. But let's take your statement at face value for a moment. If it would be silly to suggest that light can exist before various matters and energies exist (and I'm pretty sure that no one is suggesting that (subject to my earlier point about things being much more complex)), then why is it not silly to suggest that those matters and energies can exist for a day or so before they get round to producing light ?
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
then why is it not silly to suggest that those matters and energies can exist for a day or so before they get round to producing light ? There is no need to drill down even this far. Neither the earth nor the sun are oldest collections of matter in existence. And in fact, nothing in Genesis requires any such thing. Accordingly, we need not demonstrate that light must exist before matter in order to debunk CreationJon's musings. The link below is to an article about a gamma source that is 13.14 billion light years away from earth. Quite obviously, the electromagnetic energy from this object that has currently reached us was emitted at a time that predates the existence of earth. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/...-object-ever-seen-maybe In fact, though, there are plenty of objects in the universe or even in our own galaxy that emit visible light that does not shine on earth. The idea that light could not exist before the earth existed because such light would have no purpose is simply not an idea worth serious consideration. CreationJon appears to have no intention on making any attempt to defend his propositions with evidence or even with logical arguments. I would expect that real creationists would not appreciate being mocked in this manner.
If it would be silly to suggest that light can exist before various matters and energies exist Would it? What "energies" and "matters" are referred to in the sentence above, anyway? With apologies to my least favorite Supreme Court Justice, the above sentence is just goobledygook. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison
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Jon Inactive Member |
You keep making the claim that "light requires various matters and energies to exist" but keep forgetting to explain what evidence or reasoning supports that assertion. Let's start with photons. Do you have trouble accepting the claim that photons are required for the existence of light? CJLove your enemies!
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