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Author Topic:   Landmark gay marriage trial starts today in California
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 792 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 316 of 759 (654112)
02-26-2012 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 312 by Taz
02-26-2012 8:54 PM


Re: I don't want you voting on my rights either.
and women's suffrage
Oh right. I forgot about the republican primary that is championing for women's freedom.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 602 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 317 of 759 (654116)
02-26-2012 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 316 by hooah212002
02-26-2012 10:43 PM


Re: I don't want you voting on my rights either.
Oh right. I forgot about the republican primary that is championing for women's freedom.
And you must not forget, trans vaginal ultrasounds

This message is a reply to:
 Message 316 by hooah212002, posted 02-26-2012 10:43 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3282 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 318 of 759 (654128)
02-27-2012 2:16 AM
Reply to: Message 315 by Omnivorous
02-26-2012 9:47 PM


Re: I don't want you voting on my rights either.
Its important because it tells us the societal attitude. Take the Hispanic population for example. Or better, take both the Hispanic and black populations. After decades... centuries of being oppress, over 70% of those sons and daughters of bitches consistently vote against gay rights.
This is exactly why I don't believe in democracy. Too many idiots out there.

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onifre
Member (Idle past 2941 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 319 of 759 (654586)
03-02-2012 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 304 by Taz
02-23-2012 2:33 PM


I ain't no stinking Mexican
Just saw this.
Anyway, you just remind me of him that's all. I think I drew the connection where he's both hispanic and a comedian... or he tries to be.
Please don't ever compare me to a Mexican again. My family comes from Spain, we're not heathens.
However,
I work with a Mexican guy who's also homophobic.
Most Mexicans, and latins for that matter, usually are. That's why most share values with republicans and usually vote that way.
- Oni

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Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 320 of 759 (654594)
03-02-2012 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 319 by onifre
03-02-2012 8:21 AM


Re: I ain't no stinking Mexican
Most Mexicans, and latins for that matter, usually are. That's why most share values with republicans and usually vote that way.
As a matter of fact, most latins do not vote with Republicans regardless of how many values they share with them. In national elections, Republicans feel that getting 35% of voting Hispanics to vote for their party is doing extremely well.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

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onifre
Member (Idle past 2941 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 321 of 759 (654596)
03-02-2012 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 320 by NoNukes
03-02-2012 9:39 AM


Re: I ain't no stinking Mexican
I guess I'm just speaking for Cubans.
- Oni

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 Message 322 by Artemis Entreri, posted 03-05-2012 11:53 AM onifre has replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4219 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 322 of 759 (654897)
03-05-2012 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 321 by onifre
03-02-2012 9:57 AM


Re: I ain't no stinking Mexican
I thought that was because JFK?

This message is a reply to:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2941 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 323 of 759 (654946)
03-05-2012 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 322 by Artemis Entreri
03-05-2012 11:53 AM


Re: I ain't no stinking Mexican
I thought that was because JFK?
Yes, true. JFK and all the other openly gay presidents.
- Oni

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 Message 322 by Artemis Entreri, posted 03-05-2012 11:53 AM Artemis Entreri has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3282 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 324 of 759 (661650)
05-08-2012 11:17 PM


North Carolina Amendment 1
And so we come back to this. Some of you guys almost had me convinced that societal attitude is changing for the better. And yet Amendment 1 just passed. What say you?

Replies to this message:
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 792 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 325 of 759 (661652)
05-08-2012 11:51 PM
Reply to: Message 324 by Taz
05-08-2012 11:17 PM


Re: North Carolina Amendment 1
Just because NC has "north" in it's title is not indicative of it's location in the US: it's still a southern state. I think it's clear that most, if not all, southern states are at a minimum a decade behind the remainder of the world as far as way of life and forward thinking is concerned. So, "society" very well could be progressing, but the south still has to catch up, like always.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

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Replies to this message:
 Message 328 by NoNukes, posted 05-09-2012 6:12 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3902 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 326 of 759 (661734)
05-09-2012 5:35 PM


Proof of Evolution! Watch it happen live on TV!
Obama just "evolved" on the whole gay marriage thing. He now supports it.
I would like to think that his original conservativism on this was political rather than this change but either way, this is welcome news.
This is proof positive that political involvement doesn't stop on election day. If progressives have been as organized at lobbying for real change as the LGBT community has been, maybe we would have had a real progressive recovery too.
Edited by Jazzns, : No reason given.

BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine

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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4024
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


Message 327 of 759 (661737)
05-09-2012 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 326 by Jazzns
05-09-2012 5:35 PM


Re: Proof of Evolution! Watch it happen live on TV!
He supported full gay marriage way back in the 90s.
quote:
Obama’s remarks today bring him full circle to his position in 1996, when he was running for the Illinois state Senate. In response to a questionnaire from Chicago’s Outlines gay newspaper, he proclaimed, I favor legalizing same-sex marriages, and would fight efforts to prohibit such marriages.
His "evolution" has merely been to pull back on support for equality for political advantage during his first Presidential bid. He's now simply returned to his previous stance openly. Obama is a politician first, and all of his publicly avowed positions flow from that.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus
"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of
variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the
outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." Barash, David 1995.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 329 by NoNukes, posted 05-09-2012 6:17 PM Rahvin has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 328 of 759 (661745)
05-09-2012 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 325 by hooah212002
05-08-2012 11:51 PM


Re: North Carolina Amendment 1
Just because NC has "north" in it's title is not indicative of it's location in the US: it's still a southern state.
I don't feel any particular need to defend them, but Southern states have no monopoly on being backwards. According to wikipedia, 31 states ban same sex marriage by amendment to their constitution.
Here is the complete list of states whose constitutions do not either allow gay marriage or civil unions. I note in passing that Wisconsin is every bit as backwards as North Carolina in this regard.
Nebraska, Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Utah, Kansas, Texas, Alabama, Idaho, South Carolina, South Dakota, Wisconsin, Florida, North Carolina.
States with constitutions that ban gay marriage, civil unions, and any arrangement vaguely resembling marriage.
Michigan, Virginia.
States with constitutions that ban same sex marriages, but possibly leave openings for other unions.
Alaska, Nevada, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Oregon, Colorado, Tennessee, Arizona, California.
And of course even in states with no such amendment, there may be state legislation that bans gay marriage just as effectively as do the constitutional amendments.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 331 by hooah212002, posted 05-09-2012 8:05 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 329 of 759 (661747)
05-09-2012 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 327 by Rahvin
05-09-2012 5:44 PM


Re: Proof of Evolution! Watch it happen live on TV!
Obama is a politician first, and all of his publicly avowed positions flow from that.
Do you think Obama sees a political advantage in being on the record as supporting gay marriage?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 327 by Rahvin, posted 05-09-2012 5:44 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 330 by Rahvin, posted 05-09-2012 6:53 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4024
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


Message 330 of 759 (661757)
05-09-2012 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by NoNukes
05-09-2012 6:17 PM


Re: Proof of Evolution! Watch it happen live on TV!
Do you think Obama sees a political advantage in being on the record as supporting gay marriage?
I think Obama has been walking a very fine political line, and that the recent developments in NC have made him feel even greater pressure from his base to get with the program. He's long been receiving heat from equality-minded groups (which means a very large portion of the Democratic party) since he became President for not going far enough to support gay rights.
I think it's a calculated political risk. I don't think he sees "advantage" so much as "if I don't make a clear statement in favor of gay marriage now, I might find a large portion of my base becoming apathetic in November." Damage control rather than gain, in other words.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus
"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of
variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the
outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." Barash, David 1995.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by NoNukes, posted 05-09-2012 6:17 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
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