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Author | Topic: Is truth or evidence more important in science and evolution? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ScottyDouglas Member (Idle past 4331 days) Posts: 79 Joined: |
That is absolute nonsense.
IT IS THE TRUTH. AND ALSO IS OBJECTIVE AS SCIENCE SHOULD BE. RAZD has been trying to get you to take a look at his correlations threads, but you haven't gone there, have you? Afraid?I'VE LOOKED. I WILL AGAIN. I MITE HAVE MISSED SOMETHING. If you had checked those threads you'd know better than to regurgitate fundamentalist nonsense that has long since been shown to be wrong.BUT YOU HAVE NOT BEEN SHOWN RIGHT BY BEING LABELED AS A FACT AND THERE FOR TRUTH. Your belief is getting in the way of you actually learning something.NO WHAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND MY FAITH AND GOD AND HIS WORD HAS GIVEN ALL THE KNOWLEDGE I REALLY NEED. I NEED TO LEARN WHAT YOU KNOW TO KNOW WHAT?REALITY.I HAVE MY OWN.YOUR THEORIES?I DO NOT NEED THEM.HOW YOU FIND YOUR THEORIES?BY GUESSING BY WHAT YOU KNOW.I CAN DO THAT TOO. But to relate this directly to the topic: the dating methods we are using are directly tied to empirical evidence, and have been tested against known phenomena as well as against each other, as opposed to the scripture, dogma, revelation and other squishy "evidence" you are relying on.I RELY ON GOD AND YES HIS WORD.MY COMMON SENSE. AND NOT A EDUCATED MANS BELIEVING WHAT I SHOULD BELIEVE. AND YOUR EVIDENCE IS NOT AS EMPERICAL AS YOU THINK IT RELIES YOU TO HAVE A WITNESS AT THE PERIODS YOU DATE.YOU KNOW A 4.5 BILLION YEAR OLD? NOT TO MENTION ONE FEW HUNDRED, EMPERICAL MY SKINS. Edited by ScottyDouglas, : No reason given.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2106 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Sorry to have to tell you this, but...
Your posts show a complete lack of understanding of science and how it works, as well as an unhealthy tendency to substitute ancient tribal mythology for reality.
IVE READ HOW THEY CALCULATE DATES. THE END RESULT IS, IT IS GUESSES BY THEORY AND MODERN EVIDENCE. "Theory and modern evidence" -- I fail to see what's wrong with that. Sure beats bronze age tribal mythology when you want to get real answers, as opposed to superstition and fairy tales. I've done over 600 radiocarbon dates, lectured on the subject, written a monograph on the subject, and have another monograph in progress. You have no clue. You don't know how the calculate these dates, you don't know the assumptions involved and whether they are justified or not, and you don't know the corrections and calibrations that are done to make sure the dates are as accurate as possible. And it was scientists who came up with all of those corrections and calibrations in order to get better reliability and accuracy--not creationists. You have claimed several times now that dating is "guesses" and "speculation." I'm challenging you on that one. Go over to one of the threads that RAZD has recommended to you and support your claims, or admit that you can't do so. It is time to put up or shut up.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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ScottyDouglas Member (Idle past 4331 days) Posts: 79 Joined: |
it is only how you perceive. Perception is not limited to physical.
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ScottyDouglas Member (Idle past 4331 days) Posts: 79 Joined: |
Sorry to have to tell you this, but...
Your posts show a complete lack of understanding of science and how it works, as well as an unhealthy tendency to substitute ancient tribal mythology for reality. MYTH TO YOU! LETS MAKE THAT CLEAR! UNPROVABLE! I UNDERSTAND SCIENCE VERY WELL ACTUALLY. "Theory and modern evidence" -- I fail to see what's wrong with that. Sure beats bronze age tribal mythology when you want to get real answers, as opposed to superstition and fairy tales.AGAIN IF YOU DO NOT SEE IT OR EXPERIENCE IT IT IS FALSE?NOTHING IS WRONG WITH IT, IF IT APPLIES IN MODERN TIMES. DO YOU KNOW EVERYTHIN GTHAT HAS HAPPENED? IF THINGS THAT HAS HAPPENED YOU DO NOT KNOW CAN EFFECT EVIDENCE? IF THINGS JUST DO NOT AGE AS YOU OR ANYBODY CAN PREDICT? THESE ARE UNKOWABLE THINGS AND CAN NOT BE ACCOUNTED FOR I UNDERSTAND. BUT THIS MUST BE A FACT IN HINDSIGHT AND THAT LEADS TO ANY AND ALL PREDICTIONS TO BE LABELED UNKNOWABLE.AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have claimed several times now that dating is "guesses" and "speculation." I'm challenging you on that one. Go over to one of the threads that RAZD has recommended to you and support your claims, or admit that you can't do so. It is time to put up or shut up.OK I ACCPET AND WILL SHOW!
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2
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quote: By which you mean you've read a lot of attacks on dating from highly prejudiced sources.
quote: Then pretty much all knowledge about our physical universe is "speculative". And of course, you have no better alternative to offer. So I guess you are left with the choice of complete agnosticism or accepting science.
quote: You were the one who invoked the supernatural. I am telling you that if the evidence our dating is based on is too great and too coherent for any supernatural explanation that does not involve intentional deception to be plausible.
quote: Dating is the primary evidence for WHAT ? For the age of the Earth, of course it is. That is almost redundant. The rest makes even less sense. Yes, you can go on and on, ranting about matters that you don't understand. That doesn't show any concern for finding he truth.
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ScottyDouglas Member (Idle past 4331 days) Posts: 79 Joined: |
NO YOU ARE THE SCIENTIST AND HAVE NO PURPOSE FOR TRUTH JUST EVIDENCE THAT CANT OR CAN DISPROVE YOUR THEORY. HARDLY MAKES IT THE ULTIMATE TRUTH!
Edited by ScottyDouglas, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2
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I am not a scientist. I am interested in the truth. And that is why I am concerned with evidence. Your ranting and raving only convinces me that you are interested more in bullying people into worshipping you.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
ScottyDouglas writes: NO YOU ARE THE SCIENTIST AND HAVE NO PURPOSE FOR TRUTH JUST EVIDENCE THAT CANT OR CAN DISPROVE YOUR THEORY. HARDLY MAKES IT THE ULTIMATE TRUTH! From reading your posts, I think you are using the word 'truth' to mean God - the one that showed himself to you and you have an 'emotional and mental' relationship with - is this the case? If so, then we're all talking at cross purposes as all science is seeking to do is to learn how the natural world works.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Panda Member (Idle past 3712 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined:
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ScottyDouglas writes:
...says the person that can't even work out how to do quotes. I UNDERSTAND SCIENCE VERY WELL ACTUALLY.Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hi again ScottyDouglas
To know truth you must apply all theories and evidence. ... Dating is suspect and no way around it. ... These statements are contradictory. You have failed to apply all theories and evidence because you are bound by a false belief. What you need is open-minded skepticism - the open mind to consider all possibilities, and the skepticism to withhold acceptance without reason. I have pointed you at several threads that show how accurate dating methods are, and yet you continue to post your belief as valid. This shows your failure to apply all theories and evidence to your position.
... To people who do experience such phenomena feel as it is emperical. ... Agreed, the person who feels they have encountered Bigfoot will very likely consider the experience empirical, but until that encounter is validated it is a subjective experience. An experience isn't empirical until it is tested or repeated, it isn't objective until it is verified or validated by others. We can base a hypothesis on the experience, and those who are interested in the existence of Sasquatch are free to make predictions and pursue further evidence, while others can remain skeptical of their existence and wait for further information, and people without an open mind can dismiss them as non-existent fantasy.
... The actual term emperical can be different for many. ... Oh dear, now we are making up new definitions of empirical to suit fantasy beliefs?
quote: When we are talking about science we use the terminology as used in science in order to communicate the same meaning as intended.
If super natural exist it supercedes any science or physics that we know. Physics is part of science. If god/s exist then they would be responsible for what we know by science. If they do not exist then science cannot be superseded by them.
To know truth you must apply all theories and evidence. ... Now you need to do this with an open minded skepticism, rather than your dogmatic approach.
Dating is suspect ... Then go to the Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 thread and demonstrate this. IF you truly want to apply all theories and evidence to your search for truth. Interestingly, I find any search for truth that ignores theories and evidence that contradict dogmatic belief to be delusional fantasy.
Message 26: Razd, I do not deny scientific measures applied to physics. Though there is more to life than physics and anything science can offer. If you have not experienced any as the such I can not show that to you. You must choose which God you wish to reveal himself and actually try to do such. Curiously, I have done that. I am a deist. What you seem to fail to understand is that in the search for truth you must discard all preconceptions and dogmatic beliefs: you need to treat your beliefs the same way you do science, and you need to be open to the possibility of being wrong. You need an open mind in balance with skepticism.
Message 28: WHAT IF ... I see you have started yelling now. Anger is part of cognitive dissonance, and in this case shows that you are having trouble with the evidence that contradicts your beliefs. I ignore yelling, as it is emotion rather than debate.
Message 31: RAZD has been trying to get you to take a look at his correlations threads, but you haven't gone there, have you? Afraid? I'VE LOOKED. I WILL AGAIN. I MITE HAVE MISSED SOMETHING. Let me edit that:
Message 31: Coyote writes:
I've looked. I will again. I might have missed something. RAZD has been trying to get you to take a look at his correlations threads, but you haven't gone there, have you? Afraid? type [qs]quotes are easy[/qs] and it becomes:
quotes are easy or type [quote]quotes are easy[/quote] and it becomes:
quote: The ability to learn is also necessary in the search for truth. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : added replies to other postsby our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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How did you test to make sure it was God not just a bad burrito?
And No One knows if they are saved until after they are dead and judged. Sorry Charlie, you don't get the worm. So you have no evidence to offer. Okay. Do you know what the term "empirical" means? Where's the evidence? We are in a sub-forum where it is expected that you will actually provide at a minimum a reasoned argument for your position. Hopefully you might even come up with a convincing one, but "I experienced God when I was 8 years old" is not gonna cut it.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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I'd bet the T-Shirt applies too... Comics are originally from The Oatmeal - Comics by Matthew Inman NO YOU ARE THE SCIENTIST AND HAVE NO PURPOSE FOR TRUTH JUST EVIDENCE THAT CANT OR CAN DISPROVE YOUR THEORY. HARDLY MAKES IT THE ULTIMATE TRUTH! I don't care if its the ultimate truth or not, if it works then its all good. Here we are, typing to each other on computers because of the scientific advances. If they're actually all wrong and computers really run on magic then I don't care. The science works and that's good enough for me. If you want to talk about magic, then we just have to take our scientist hats off. And that's cool too. But there's nothing wrong with science disregarding magic, it doesn't do anything to hurt the science as long as its still working.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7
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Care to address my questions?
Message 19 Please tell us what you mean by 'truth", without using word salad and woo. It should be quite easy for you to define it since you are so confident in its existence. If you are unable to define so others can understand it then it probably is just some subjective crap. Define "validated evidence". You tried to say this was your definition of 'truth", but unless you further define this then your definition is meaningless. How did this "God" reveal this truth to you? Did anyone else see it? Patiently waiting.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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ScottyDouglas Member (Idle past 4331 days) Posts: 79 Joined: |
First off I do not need evidence. I do not have to prove anything. I do not have to show God exists. I do not have to explain how I exsperienced him. I did. You havent. That is not my fault nor my problem. That seems to be peoples problem. The read the Bible and say this is hocus pocus and not reality because it does not happen today. Not true. You can not discredit something that is not provable in the first place. The Bible says many times over and over that you must have faith. How can someone attempt to read and understand a book that requires faith when you have none?
The topic is: truth or evidence which is more important in science and evolution? Answer - evidence. Hints no faith and therefore not capable of understanding truth and furthermore God. Edited by ScottyDouglas, : No reason given.
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ScottyDouglas Member (Idle past 4331 days) Posts: 79 Joined: |
Truth is what actually happened. No dogma. No theories. The truth is what happened and what will happen. It can be proven by evidence. It can be proven by it accuring. Truth can be visual and invisable. Evidence does not make truth but it supports it. Physical means does not make it truth but it reflects truth.
Im not refusing science and thier methods. I know science seeks physical reality. I applaud that. Going beyond our physical reality to make calculations and predictions is not truth. God reveals himself to someone they can not prove it and most cases are though as fantasing. That does not mean they are in fantasy though and what they experienced is real. It is not physical. Science only can determine physical means and anything outside that is beyond what science can offer. If something is beyond science then how can science achieve it? They can not they would need other sources and experts.
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