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Author Topic:   Evolution versus Creationism is a 'Red Herring' argument
PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3409 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 75 of 136 (667615)
07-10-2012 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by herebedragons
07-08-2012 9:12 AM


Re: Red Herring? Where?
a very boring book, yes. don't read it, you might get the message.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by herebedragons, posted 07-08-2012 9:12 AM herebedragons has replied

Replies to this message:
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PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3409 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 76 of 136 (667617)
07-10-2012 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by 1.61803
07-10-2012 1:47 PM


Re: Red Herring? Where?
"You must be born anew". Obtain into your being Zoe. Not something Burroughs experienced, which explains the misery he was stuck with. BTW: both sides my family were in Texas before 1845.

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PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3409 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 78 of 136 (667619)
07-10-2012 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by ringo
07-06-2012 2:14 PM


Re: Other relevant E v C empirically testable issues
It cannot in any way- directly. But my inference is that man would: 1; Have to be capable of being responsible before receiving a spirit. 2. Such responsibility requires a free will. 3. Such a free will requires a certain (evolved, genetically determined) level of intelligence. 4. THAT
(3. above) IS amenable to empirical processes.

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Replies to this message:
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PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3409 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 79 of 136 (667620)
07-10-2012 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by NoNukes
07-09-2012 10:25 PM


re: uniformitarinism
When faced with the fact of Venusian craters of recent- even potentially historic- origin, an astrophysicist refused to modify his belief in a uniformitarianism philosophy that excluded the possibility of such events. That is dogmatic, not logical or empirical. Uniformitarianism as a cosmological (pre-telescope) school of thought excluded the possibility of close interaction between planetary bodies.

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PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3409 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 80 of 136 (667621)
07-10-2012 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by 1.61803
07-10-2012 2:13 PM


re: uniformitarinism
Whatever else, I hope that you do arrive at the Truth..

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PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3409 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 83 of 136 (667625)
07-10-2012 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by ringo
07-10-2012 2:37 PM


Re: Other relevant E v C empirically testable issues
The ability to choose (or reject) freely is intrinsic and unique to humanity. God is NOT capricious (all misunderstandings and misrepresentations to the contrary). Because man was made in God's image, we can thus extrapolate that God is a God of purpose, and is not arbitrary. He would NOT entrust man with any purpose unless man is capable of being responsible. and if man's decisions (will) are solely the result of either instinct or logic, then he cannot be responsible. A will that is a free will is necessary. And that has been shown to be resultant to a requisite level of intelligence, which is genetically determined.

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Replies to this message:
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PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3409 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 85 of 136 (667629)
07-10-2012 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Taq
07-10-2012 2:48 PM


Re: Red Herring? Where?
Can you prove or disprove the Bible? If you think so, then you rate yourself more highly than Rousseau- which is not very likely except in your self-evaluation- which is always (for all of us) never 100% accurate. Will the validity of evolution answer the question 'What is the purpose of man?'. "Coming to a full knowledge of the Truth is a subjective experience of a living Person. NOT an objective philosophy based merely on logical proofs. If truth was obtainable through mental effort, there would be no room for faith, grace, mercy, or Love.

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 Message 82 by Taq, posted 07-10-2012 2:48 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Taq, posted 07-10-2012 4:34 PM PaulGL has replied
 Message 92 by jar, posted 07-10-2012 4:44 PM PaulGL has replied

  
PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3409 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 86 of 136 (667630)
07-10-2012 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by ringo
07-10-2012 3:05 PM


Re: Other relevant E v C empirically testable issues
Read post #81. Again.

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PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3409 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 87 of 136 (667631)
07-10-2012 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by ringo
07-10-2012 2:37 PM


Re: Other relevant E v C empirically testable issues
You make logical inferences. Then you draw logical extrapolations from them. Then you test those with the known, relevant facts.

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 Message 81 by ringo, posted 07-10-2012 2:37 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3409 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 89 of 136 (667634)
07-10-2012 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by ringo
07-10-2012 3:22 PM


Re: Other relevant E v C empirically testable issues
All knowledge (except for axiomatic truths) begins with making premises, which are then tested to see whether or not they are viable theorems. I 100% (to reiterate what I have previously stated) that YES! evolution is the only viable explanation for life as we know it. Why? Was it an axiomatic truth? No. But its premises logically led to inferences, which were empirically testable. Some failed. What we have today is the explanation of the process indicated by the mechanisms which passed the tests.

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PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3409 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 96 of 136 (667697)
07-11-2012 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by herebedragons
07-11-2012 12:44 AM


as simply as I can put it
Free will is dependent on a requisite level of intelligence, and not merely gross brain size but a high 'brain-to-body' ratio. These characteristics are genetically determined. I refer you to the book 'Extra-terrestrial Civilizations' by Isaac Asimov.

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PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3409 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 97 of 136 (667700)
07-11-2012 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by herebedragons
07-11-2012 12:40 AM


Re: Red Herring? Where?
It's non-fiction, which puts it at an immediate disadvantage with fiction in the scale of boring. Plus, for cohesion and logical progression, it is written in a textbook style/format. Also, there is a readability problem resulting from inter-meshing logic, science, and scripture. But the scope of its field, and the relevance to mankind's fate, are considerable none-the-less.

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PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3409 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 98 of 136 (667701)
07-11-2012 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by herebedragons
07-11-2012 12:14 AM


Re: Red Herring? Where?
Knowledge, indeed all of the physical universe, points seeking persons in the right direction. But the answer is deeper than knowledge- than a mere arrangement of neuronic pathways. The answer is an eternal Person received into the center of the seeker who opens to receive Him. But received into an organ- the human spirit- in the center of their being, deeper than their mind.

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PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3409 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


Message 99 of 136 (667703)
07-11-2012 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by jar
07-10-2012 4:44 PM


Re: Red Herring? Where?
Believe what you like, it won't change the future. Many persons of high intellectual and educational attainment and capacity have thought otherwise. Pascal, Rousseau, ad infinitum. What did they know? After all, we have so much more reams of details, and such greater technological advancement.

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PaulGL
Member (Idle past 3409 days)
Posts: 92
Joined: 04-06-2012


(1)
Message 101 of 136 (667707)
07-11-2012 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Taq
07-10-2012 4:34 PM


Re: Red Herring? Where?
I cannot 'prove' the Bible. Nor can a superficial understanding of it justify concluding that it is false. Fact of the matter is, it predicts certain events which have not yet transpired. And indications are favorable that most people here now will see, experience, and witness many of them. And when your own life is at stake, it will be hard even for the most dubious of skeptics to assert with 100% conviction that it is merely coincidence.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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