Can the Christian God exist without the Bible?

Im not sure if we have covered this topic before, but as a Christian who struggles with how literal Biblical interpretation should be, I ask the question: Can Father+Son+Holy Spirit=1 God (The absolute Creator Who is knowable) exist without the Bible? For me, the answer is yes. The question brings up some issues which I propose to discuss, however. Faith and Belief?

Yes, but if Jesus is God incarnate, how would we ever know what He said apart from what He said to us personally? How would we be able to tell Him apart from any spirit..(some fake ones)Look at how you and I disagree About the Gospel of John. To me, even though it clearly differs in many ways from the others, it is the same God saying things from the persepective of another writer who doubtlessly experienced Him.We know that the Gospel of Jar would sound different from the Phatine letters! WE know that if Percy ever wrote a book about the inner unctions, he would need Ben to help him define it better.Would it harmonize with the author within each of us? I know that purpledawn and I disagree over the source of wisdom. She believes that man invented God. I believe that God enlightened man.Would His revealed nature be relative to the individual or would each of us be able to write a book and theoretically have a part of a Bible with similar morality, declaration, and situations as the one now here? Obviously some see it (Him) or "that feeling" differently than others.Proponants of the canons generally agree that the 66 or so books agree with each other in spirit and message...while the gnostics and a few others have a different flavor. Imagine if everyone heard from God (without ever having heard of a Bible or religion) and you would have the same disagreements over interpretations that we have now...
only not with any "map" or book to criticize or use to defend a position.The Bible may well be a map to the territory, but many of the words have been internalized and confirmed by me...stories of Jesus, parables, etc. Without any of that to go by, I am quite sure that God still would have reached me as He did...perhaps not in a church, but perhaps in a mall, or a restaurant, or a school.How would I know Him apart from internal awareness? If He talked gently to my inner spirit, would He say a whole new group of teachings or would it be what has been written?Would we folk who felt His inner presence get together, rejoicing initially, then later becoming "human" and serious again...making up rules and starting a religion?This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-21-2005 06:52 AM

I think that people would go about writing Bibles, starting churches, and doing the same thing at a much faster pace than folk did back in the day before Constantine up till the printing press.We would have online church blogs...(kinda like how we talk around here...) I like how we do it...because we all never agree that the topic is done and written in stone..we just start new topics!Some say that the early "church fathers" were inspired by a common Spirit and all agreed quite readily. Others say that they merely compromised and agreed on a book selection with only certain points of view established. Knowledge and other beliefs have crept in to the human knowledge pool since then...yet if God exists outside of the Bible, surely He would or could impart a common vision and set of inner morals to a group of people,no?

Funny how the stories from the fundamentalists about the end of the world mention an evil antichrist who abolishes religion and sets up an inner god within each human...either this is evil to be relativistic or the story was to scare people away from thinking for themselves! How would wisdom prove other wisdom false?Its one thing to dismiss a flood story as a parable or legend. It is quite another to disprove Jesus Christ.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-21-2005 07:08 AM

Of course we discuss stuff. If the early canons were artificially constructed, are you suggesting that God is incapable of bringing any form of agreement that can be quantified? Or...more likely, humans just plain won't agree?

So how do we know what scripture is? And..without a Bible around, where is this scripture? Written on the heart of simple folk with a kind word, a helping hand, and no hidden agenda?This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-21-2005 07:23 AM

I would say that the fact that humans cannot agree is because of our darwinian evolved survival properties...we are born competitors!Some speculate that Original Sin is itself an evolved concept since its initial inception.(mutation?)I guess that I'm wondering why God allowed us all to feud over the years...some blame Him for not stepping in, but I still think He has given us a way out...if we could handle the humility.

If American "Christians" were truly humble,they would not care if they gave everything away to help the world. The world would see us in a new way, and huge military budgets would be unneeded. Jesus said that His kingdom was 1)not of this world and 2) within us. The average one of us wants to gain material blessings and wealth under the assumption that it is Gods provision and blessing.
humility \hyu-mi-le-te, yu-\ n : the quality or state of being humble Jesus, even though He was a man like us, had access to God in a way that meant He could have become a Messianic King and rule the world. Demons had to flee from such power!
People would have had the wisest king ever. Solomon sinned often. David sinned often. Dubya?...well, lets not go there! The point is that even Jesus taught humility as a key to Gods blessing. Many Christians believe that since the Bible says that we were fearfully and wonderfully made, foreknown from the foundations of the world by God Himself, that we are special. However... My point is that many, if not most of us modern day Christians are quite afraid to take our servant hood to that level. Just as Peter denied His Lord three times, so too do we struggle with even the simple acts of obedience such as giving up T.V. to go see a sick friend (one we do not naturally like) Edited by Phat, : fixed spelling

So...if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it..."Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing."What I mean is: If the scripture was fullfilled, would it be fullfilled whether or not anyone heard it? What does it mean to hear? Hear what? And about this "overcoming"? What are we overcoming? Any ideas?

Yes, I realize that this is true. When I started this topic in 2005, I was more literal and churchified than I am today. The question is more of a "what if" question to be discussed philosophically than it is an assertion of a particular belief or ideology. By definition, any human description will be assigned to the myth/mythos category. Humans may argue, however, that they have actually experienced or met God, so there will be arguments. The bottom line is that nobody can prove these encounters, though some may argue that radically changed lives and personalities would seem to indicate an agent of change. Some people see the need for a Creator to be lacking. They point out that we can theorize the origins and behaviors of the known universe quite well without need of a Creator. Others would claim that, in a sense, humans themselves are creators of descriptive reality and are quite arrogant in so being...seeing as how we are such a minute speck of known intelligence in such a vast universe. Why not a Creator? Thus the philosophical wars commence. Some think that its simply right that we should determine our own place in reality as we measure it, and that there is no evidence for God. My only observatin is that those who want there to be a God usually are more likely to become believers, whereas those who have disdain for such a description don't even like speculating of Gods possible existance. No, there was no Bible...we have discussed this before. There were ideas orally discussed, and there were philosophies and beliefs. SAurely something caused Constantine to convert...legend says it was a dream. Paul certainly got knocked off his high horse as Saul, and became as zealous for his new belief as he was for his old belief.My question: Was an external source, author, and/or power responsible for these changes or was it all in their own minds? Exactly! This is why I prefer philosophy over dogmatic theology. IF God exists, She surely can communicate with every individual internally. The only problem is how we would know that our epiphanies were of such great meaning so as to cause us to try and convert others. I might ask GOD directly IF He wishes to even communicate with us or whether He expects us to handle things on our own, as it is more logical.

If humanity could arrive at a consensus as to who and what GOD is, need it be in any way accurate as to the actuality?As far as communication goes, I would like to believe (and thus DO believe) that GOD is capable of communication, even through the wisdom of others.

In another topic, you mention the following:

quote:

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Faith, grace, mercy, love can only be obtained through mental effort; they are things an individual works at and the result of evolution, teaching and personal experience; of a growth in wisdom.

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Does this mean, in your opinion, that God gives us nothing? The Bible(compilation of books of NIV) says that God gives us grace.We may well not understand GOD, and can only imagine the God we believe in, but many of us believe that He gives us grace. (also mercy, in my opinion.)I can cite a few scriptures, but trust that you have read the Bible.

so are you implying that GOD is in no way (possibly) interactive with humanity? As i said earlier, Surely something caused Constantine to convert...legend says it was a dream. Paul certainly got knocked off his high horse as Saul, and became as zealous for his new belief as he was for his old belief.It was a lot more than just building a franchise. These men were not simply interested in making money...there was and is more to life than that. Perhaps it is we who become the decisions we make and the actions we take, but to say that God is not in communion with humanity is radical.

We can honestly dare say that God is not necessary, but "likely" implies knowing...and we simply don't know. I could just as easily state that God is quite likely, but I would be no closer to the truth than you are.This topic assumes Gods existence, anyway....which is why it is in Faith & Belief.The likelihood is at worst 50/50

since when does probability determine a Deity? Why can't it just be I AM that I AM?