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Author Topic:   Bogus Id/Creationist poll
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 1 of 13 (66601)
11-15-2003 2:24 AM


I have just read an interesting article in the "News and Comment" section of the Nov/Dec issue of the Skeptical Inquirer [Polling for Intelligent Design | Skeptical Inquirer] concerning a poll conducted by the New Mexico branch of the Intelligent Design Network Inc.
It claims the online survey was sent to approximately 16,000 employees of Sandia and Los Alamos National Labs as well as 500 science and enginneering faculty members at 3 universities in New Mexico.
The response from the head of Sandia [8,000 employees] indicates that no such survey took place at Sandia.
Without going into too much more detail which you can read for yourself at the website it seems that the people conducting the survey were decieving themselves as to the veracity of their claims and must have some kind of masochistic streak if they thought that lying would improve their position or that investigations into the claims would not surface.
I personally think it is mindless tripe of the worst kind regardless of my point of view on the matter of ID/Creationism since I cannot fathom what they hope to accomplish with fabrication of these matters. The apparent purpose is to influence the State Board of Education in order to have intelligent design taught in New Mexico.
What I fail to see is what did they hope to gain since they must have known that these matters would be investigated.
Any thoughts on the psychology behind this?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by NosyNed, posted 11-15-2003 11:34 AM sidelined has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 2 of 13 (66628)
11-15-2003 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
11-15-2003 2:24 AM


some guesses
It is hard to fathom isn't it?
However, let me have a guess or two. I'll order them in what I consider to be increasing likelyhood.
1) The have absolutely no idea of what they are doing. They don't understand polling at all and think that if "my mother says..." then all mothers must say the same thing. So a tiny sample size is not a problem to them since they don't know that "sample size" means.
2)Those conducting the poll do know a bit. But they went to effort and expense and tried to salvage what they could out of it. Sometimes we get caught up in what we are doing and don't realize we should stop.
3) They don't care about the accuracy. They don't care what any knowledgable people say. They have what they want. They will quite officialy refering to the study but it is now out there and will be referred to all over the place. It will become part of the folklore. They aren't willing to be so very dishonest as to make claims without any study at all but they are dishonest enough to alloow the spread of this even though they know full well the results are meaningless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by sidelined, posted 11-15-2003 2:24 AM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by sidelined, posted 11-15-2003 1:38 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 3 of 13 (66654)
11-15-2003 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by NosyNed
11-15-2003 11:34 AM


Re: some guesses
NosyNed
You know,I don't believe they are unintelligent of course but they do fulfill the qualities of the word ignorant.What I have difficulty understanding is what is so twisted in their psychology that they need to lie to themselves so inconsistently?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by NosyNed, posted 11-15-2003 11:34 AM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by joshua221, posted 11-15-2003 1:48 PM sidelined has not replied
 Message 7 by joshua221, posted 11-16-2003 9:32 AM sidelined has not replied
 Message 8 by joshua221, posted 11-16-2003 9:34 AM sidelined has replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 13 (66658)
11-15-2003 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by sidelined
11-15-2003 1:38 PM


Re: some guesses
What is wrong with those ignorant IDers?
------------------
"I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." -Jesus
John 3:3
This is Prophecyexclaimed, new name.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by sidelined, posted 11-15-2003 1:38 PM sidelined has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by NosyNed, posted 11-15-2003 1:55 PM joshua221 has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 5 of 13 (66662)
11-15-2003 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by joshua221
11-15-2003 1:48 PM


Re: some guesses
What is wrong?
In this case, IronMan, it appears they have fallen somewhere between careless and dishonest. Figuring out where would probably require a lot of work.
Where would you place this little example?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by joshua221, posted 11-15-2003 1:48 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by joshua221, posted 11-16-2003 9:31 AM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 9 by joshua221, posted 11-16-2003 9:39 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 13 (66802)
11-16-2003 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by NosyNed
11-15-2003 1:55 PM


Re: some guesses
Dishonest actually.
------------------
"I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." -Jesus
John 3:3
This is Prophecyexclaimed, new name.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by NosyNed, posted 11-15-2003 1:55 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 13 (66803)
11-16-2003 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by sidelined
11-15-2003 1:38 PM


Re: some guesses
Why would I be ignorant as a Creationist sidelined?
------------------
"I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." -Jesus
John 3:3
This is Prophecyexclaimed, new name.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by sidelined, posted 11-15-2003 1:38 PM sidelined has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 13 (66804)
11-16-2003 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by sidelined
11-15-2003 1:38 PM


Re: some guesses
quote:
What I have difficulty understanding is what is so twisted in their psychology that they need to lie to themselves so inconsistently?
Why am I lying to myself, please explain I am puzzled about your philosophy on Creationists.
------------------
"I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." -Jesus
John 3:3
This is Prophecyexclaimed, new name.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by sidelined, posted 11-15-2003 1:38 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by NosyNed, posted 11-16-2003 9:50 AM joshua221 has replied
 Message 11 by sidelined, posted 11-16-2003 9:51 AM joshua221 has replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 13 (66806)
11-16-2003 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by NosyNed
11-15-2003 1:55 PM


Re: some guesses
If what sidelined says is true that is.
------------------
"I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." -Jesus
John 3:3
This is Prophecyexclaimed, new name.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by NosyNed, posted 11-15-2003 1:55 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 10 of 13 (66807)
11-16-2003 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by joshua221
11-16-2003 9:34 AM


Re: some guesses
I think he is referring to the use of this poll this time IronMan.
However, it is possible that he sees it necessary to lie to oneself to be able to stay a YEC.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by joshua221, posted 11-16-2003 9:34 AM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by joshua221, posted 11-16-2003 10:00 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 11 of 13 (66808)
11-16-2003 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by joshua221
11-16-2003 9:34 AM


Re: some guesses
Iron Man
You post.
"Why would I be ignorant as a Creationist sidelined?"
I never said you were as I was talking about the people in the article who conducted the poll.The term ignorant has the root word ignore which is what these people do in abundance.It is one thing to have a viewpoint you would like to believe in,it is entirely different to misrepresent the truth of a research you conducted in order to try and put that viewpoint forth as valid.
Actually I have the impression that you are not one who would attempt something as silly as this.I may not agree with how you look at things but I do not believe you would say one thing and do another as these people have.In the same light I do not see any problem with these people having their viewpoin texcept when they allow in distortions that gain them nothing and harm their veracity greatly.
------------------
"Nature uses only the longest threads to weave her patterns, so that each small piece of her fabric reveals the organization of the entire tapestry."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by joshua221, posted 11-16-2003 9:34 AM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by joshua221, posted 11-16-2003 9:59 AM sidelined has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 13 (66812)
11-16-2003 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by sidelined
11-16-2003 9:51 AM


Re: some guesses
Yeah sidelined after I read through what I wrote again I realized that you weren't talking about Creationists as a whole (pretty stupid of me), the 'little example' IS pretty annoying to me because dishonesty is not something Christians should be using to prove a point. If the point exists that is.
------------------
"I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." -Jesus
John 3:3
This is Prophecyexclaimed, new name.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by sidelined, posted 11-16-2003 9:51 AM sidelined has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 13 (66813)
11-16-2003 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by NosyNed
11-16-2003 9:50 AM


Re: some guesses
Possibly.
------------------
"I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." -Jesus
John 3:3
This is Prophecyexclaimed, new name.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by NosyNed, posted 11-16-2003 9:50 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
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