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Author Topic:   The Awesome Obama Thread II
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 125 of 397 (652319)
02-13-2012 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by crashfrog
02-10-2012 8:56 PM


Re: Next campaign as pragmatic and non-idealistic as the last one?
Before taking part in this thread I had concluded that Obama was just another disappointment of a politician. Since talking to you I have come to realise the following about Obama A) He's black B) He's probably the greatest leader ever.
This Foreign Policy Dithering and this Link are not untypical of the sort of coverage here. Is this sort of coverage not also reasonably prevalent on your side of the pond?
Here's an extract from the second link:
quote:
"Time magazine's cover featured a photo-montaged image merging Obama and Franklin Roosevelt, hailing "the New New Deal". There was a breathless expectation that Obama was poised to solve an economic crisis with a programme of investment and government activism that would not only put Americans back to work but rebuild the country, preparing it for a cleaner, greener future. And of course Obama would put aside the reckless, swaggering foreign policy of his predecessor, would reach out to the Muslim world and would doubtless replace discord with harmony across the globe. It was not just those who were there on that bright January morning who got caught up in the excitement of all this promise. Less than nine months later, the Nobel committee gave Obama its peace prize.
Now all that seems a long time ago. Conservative Americans, especially those who live in the Foxosphere, never believed the hype anyway. But since then, many of the one-time true believers, Democrats and liberals, have lost their faith in Obama. They believe his presidency has been a terrible, historic letdown; that he has not delivered on his promises; that instead of bringing radical change, he has provided more of the same; that he has been a weak, querulous presence in the White House, unwilling to make enemies, unwilling even to define himself or make clear what he stands for.
The specific charge sheet against Obama could run for several pages and then several more. On the economy, the president is blamed for a lack of ambition, for passing a stimulus package of $787bn that, say the critics, should have been nearly twice the size. Obama erred, too, by allowing Democrats in Congress to write the stimulus bill, packing it with pet schemes and pork that would do little to get the economy moving. In an attempt to win Republican support — which never came — he also weighed down the bill with too many tax cuts. The result was action that was simply incomplete, leaving unemployment hovering around the 9% mark for most of Obama's presidency.
Former admirers say he was too weak on the banks, failing to declare war on those who had caused the 2008 crash. The clues were there in his senior appointments. While some liberals had fantasised about a dream ticket of Nobel laureate Paul Krugman and former labour secretary Robert Reich, Obama filled his two key economic posts with Larry Summers and Timothy Geithner, both schooled by Robert Rubin, former co-chair of Goldman Sachs. Obama did legislate on financial reform, but the bill did not go far enough, with no restoration of the Depression-era Glass-Steagall act, which had previously separated casino and retail banking. Nor was there any action to cap the pay of top executives, even in companies majority-owned by the US government. It's not that Obama fought and lost on these issues. In most cases, he did not even fight.
His signature achievement, the passage of healthcare reform, also dismayed as many liberals as it delighted, chiefly because Obama surrendered on the so-called public option which, while not exactly establishing an American NHS, would have at least offered a government-run insurance programme as an alternative to the private sector. That made Obama's bill no more radical than one proposed decades earlier by Richard Nixon, or the one passed by a certain Mitt Romney when he was governor of Massachusetts.
In his inaugural address Obama spoke often and poetically on climate change. He vowed to "harness the sun and the winds and the soil to fuel our cars and run our factories". But there has been no action and not even any serious advocacy. Aware that Republicans do not even believe there is an energy problem, he has shied away from offering a solution.
Those of us watching from afar have felt versions of this disappointment. Plenty of Guardian readers would have cheered when Obama used his first day in office to sign an order for the closure of the detention camp at Guantnamo Bay — and chose to make his first presidential phone call to the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas. But, thwarted by a Republican refusal to allow any ex-Guantnamo detainees to set foot on US soil, Obama has been unable to make good on that day one order: Camp Delta remains open. As for Israel-Palestine, on which he had promised to work from his first day in office, the US role has been ineffective or even, by some lights, counter-productive."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by crashfrog, posted 02-10-2012 8:56 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by crashfrog, posted 02-13-2012 2:25 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 143 of 397 (652859)
02-16-2012 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by crashfrog
02-13-2012 2:25 PM


Re: Next campaign as pragmatic and non-idealistic as the last one?
Crash writes:
I mean, I don't know if that's hard for someone from a country with a Queen to understand, or what.
As I am sure you are aware the British queen is nothing more than a rather pointless figurehead with a selection of over-priced hats.
I thought the US president was supposed to be more than just a pointless figurehead.
Crash writes:
Congress is a completely different branch of our government, it's almost entirely responsible for the nation's domestic policy, and it doesn't take orders from Obama.
I've seen Obama on TV recently talking about his plans for domestic tax policy and suchlike.
Can we just ignore these speeches as rather pointless wish-lists that aren't going to happen because congress almost certainly won't have any of it?
Crash writes:
Obama can't give orders to Congress. They don't have to do what he says.
Let's take a specific and internationally high profile example of Obama's presidency. The signing of the order to close Guantanomo. Was that nothing more than a PR exercise/photo opportunity? What was the point of it?
And was it really just stupid of people like me to think it meant something real?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by crashfrog, posted 02-13-2012 2:25 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by crashfrog, posted 02-16-2012 4:06 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 145 of 397 (653159)
02-18-2012 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by crashfrog
02-16-2012 4:06 PM


Re: Next campaign as pragmatic and non-idealistic as the last one?
Straggler writes:
Can we just ignore these speeches as rather pointless wish-lists that aren't going to happen because congress almost certainly won't have any of it?
Crash writes:
Yes, the same as we can ignore the wish-lists of Romney and Santorum.
So basically anyone who believes anything any presidential candidate says about US domestic policy is just being naive or ignorant?
And we should all have known this when Obama was publicly and eloquently making his wish-lists last time around?
Can you not see why people might have expected more?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by crashfrog, posted 02-16-2012 4:06 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by crashfrog, posted 02-18-2012 6:43 PM Straggler has not replied
 Message 147 by jar, posted 02-18-2012 6:51 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 196 of 397 (654631)
03-02-2012 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by dronestar
03-02-2012 1:22 PM


Re: It's dj vu all over again
Would a separate thread analysing the racism/mysogyny/whatever of the joke in question be appropriate? Or just overkill?
For the record - I see this primarily as a "slutty mum" joke rather than explicitly racist. But context is everything....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by dronestar, posted 03-02-2012 1:22 PM dronestar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Theodoric, posted 03-02-2012 1:51 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(2)
Message 201 of 397 (654638)
03-02-2012 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Theodoric
03-02-2012 1:51 PM


Re: It's dj vu all over again
Theo writes:
Which also makes it extremely inappropriate for a sitting federal judge to forward a slutty mom joke about the President.
I guess. But at the same time judges are human and humans make jokes about people that other humans know of.
If he'd made the same joke about you or me it wouldn't work because nobody knows who the hell we are.
Judges are human. Even if that doesn't always make for politically correct jokes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Theodoric, posted 03-02-2012 1:51 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 394 of 397 (670676)
08-17-2012 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by crashfrog
02-08-2012 8:17 PM


Re: Next campaign as pragmatic and non-idealistic as the last one?
Crash writes:
Obama's gonna sail to re-election and the next job Romney's gonna have is hawking boner pills. All because Obama has the incredible sense to get out of the way when his opponents are determined to knock themselves out.
Do you still think this is the case?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by crashfrog, posted 02-08-2012 8:17 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 395 by crashfrog, posted 08-17-2012 9:40 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 396 of 397 (670709)
08-17-2012 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 395 by crashfrog
08-17-2012 9:40 AM


Re: Next campaign as pragmatic and non-idealistic as the last one?
From afar there seems to be some indication that Romney is gaining traction.
As the biggest cheer leader for Obama I have come across I wondered what you made of that.
But I am not claiming to have any great insight or point here. I literally wanted to know what your current thinking on Obama's chances are at the moment.
A status of "unchanged" and "clear winner" seems to be your position.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by crashfrog, posted 08-17-2012 9:40 AM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 397 by ramoss, posted 08-18-2012 9:51 AM Straggler has not replied

  
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