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Author Topic:   MACROevolution vs MICROevolution - what is it?
RAZD
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Posts: 20714
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Message 87 of 908 (441921)
12-19-2007 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Elmer
12-18-2007 10:30 PM


topic please.
Please remember that this is the genetic determinist, i.e., darwinian, explanation for 'how the giraffe got its long neck'. So of course there is no 'conflict' between the example and genetic determinism.
And nothing in your post has anything to do with what macroevolution is or what is different from microevolution. The topic is MACROevolution vs MICROevolution - what is it?, so please see if you can focus on that issue.
I look forward to your posting on this issue.
I look forward to it.
Good. That thread is now open and you have replied, therefore you do not need to keep making off-topic posts here.
Everyone else please stop responding to off-topic posts, and stick to the issue here: what is MACROevolution and how does it differ from MICROevolution?
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : linked, clarified

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RAZD
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Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
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Message 88 of 908 (441922)
12-19-2007 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Wounded King
12-19-2007 7:24 AM


topic
MACROevolution vs MICROevolution - what is it?
Edited by RAZD, : linked

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RAZD
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Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
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Message 89 of 908 (441923)
12-19-2007 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by bluegenes
12-19-2007 8:20 AM


topic
MACROevolution vs MICROevolution - what is it?
Edited by RAZD, : linked

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RAZD
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Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
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Message 91 of 908 (456411)
02-17-2008 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by tesla
02-14-2008 12:18 PM


Re: hrm.
Thanks tesla,
it would appear that "macro evolution" has been understood as a complete species change from one species to another, and not cross breed-able.
micro evolution seems to be defined as evolutionary adaptions by a species to adjust to environments.
i believe its possible for one species to be born of another and not crossbreed-able with the original species, for the simple reason of the "apparent" evolution of the dog.
That works for me.
my thoughts (since you want a creationist opinion:
either stage either is a stage of evolution , or is not.
Question: why would creationist definition\usage differ from what scientists\science use? Does that accomplish anything but confusion?
who coined the term macro evolution?
I don't know.
Enjoy.

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RAZD
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Posts: 20714
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Message 94 of 908 (654475)
03-01-2012 7:48 PM


Definitions - macro, micro, are they different?
Let's look at what university biology websites have to say about microevolution and macroevolution:
quote:
Berkeley:
The Definition:
Biological evolution, simply put, is descent with modification. This definition encompasses small-scale evolution (changes in gene frequency in a population from one generation to the next) and large-scale evolution (the descent of different species from a common ancestor over many generations). Evolution helps us to understand the history of life.
Microevolution - small scale evolution - is the changes in gene frequency in a population from one generation to the next.
Macroevolution - large scale evolution - is the descent of different species from a common ancestor over many generations.
quote:
UMich:
Definitions of Biological Evolution
We begin with two working definitions of biological evolution, which capture these two facets of genetics and differences among life forms. Then we will ask what is a species, and how does a species arise?
Definition 1:
Changes in the genetic composition of a population with the passage of each generation
Definition 2:
The gradual change of living things from one form into another over the course of time, the origin of species and lineages by descent of living forms from ancestral forms, and the generation of diversity
Note that the first definition emphasizes genetic change. It commonly is referred to as microevolution. The second definition emphasizes the appearance of new, physically distinct life forms that can be grouped with similar appearing life forms in a taxonomic hierarchy. It commonly is referred to as macroevolution.
So again:
Microevolution - Changes in the genetic composition of a population with the passage of each generation.
Macroevolution - The gradual change of living things from one form into another over the course of time, the origin of species and lineages by descent of living forms from ancestral forms, and the generation of diversity.
So what is the difference? What happens to cause macroevolution that does not occur by microevolution?
Enjoy

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 95 of 908 (654650)
03-02-2012 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by RAZD
03-01-2012 7:48 PM


Re: Definitions - macro, micro, are they different?
So what is the difference? What happens to cause macroevolution that does not occur by microevolution?
My take on it:
(1) The process of Microevolution involves the change in the frequency distribution and composition of hereditary traits within breeding populations from generation to generation, in response to ecological challenges and opportunities.
Mutation can cause change in the composition of hereditary traits carried by individuals of a breeding population, but not all mutations do so. In addition there are many different kinds of mutations and they have different effects (from small to large).
Natural Selection and Neutral Drift can cause change in the distribution of hereditary traits within the breeding population, but they are not the only mechanism that does so.
The ecological challenges and opportunities change when the environment changes, the breeding population evolves, other organisms within the ecology evolve, migrations change the mixture of organisms within the ecology, or a breeding population migrates into a new ecology. These changes can result in different survival and reproductive challenges and opportunities, affecting selection pressure, perhaps causing speciation, perhaps causing extinction.
Mutations of hereditary traits have been observed to occur, and thus this aspect of microevolution is an observed, known objective fact, rather than an untested hypothesis.
Natural selection and neutral drift have been observed to occur, along with the observed alteration in the distribution of hereditary traits within breeding populations, and thus this aspect of microevolution is an observed, known objective fact, and not an untested hypothesis.
(2) The process of Macroevolution involves the development of new species, the formation of nested hierarchies of descent of new species from common ancestor populations, and an increase in the diversity of life.
This looks at the continued effects of microevolution over many generations, where the accumulation of changes from generation to generation become sufficient for new species to develop that are different from the ancestral parent populations. This lineal change in species is sometimes called phyletic or arbitrary speciation.
(a) The process of Phyletic Speciation involves a lineage of descent from an ancestor population accumulating sufficient differences through microevolution that, when compared to the ancestor population, it would appear to be a different species.
This is sometimes called arbitrary speciation because it is difficult to agree on where the line of division from one species to the next occurs, how many times this occurs in a given lineage, and because the definition of species itself is fairly arbitrary.
The amount of change in phyletic speciation can be compared to the changes seen in divergent speciation between parent (ancestral) populations and the daughter (descendant) populations as a check on the amount of change to be considered.
(b) The process of Divergent Speciation involves the division of a parent population into two or more reproductively isolated daughter populations, which then are free to (micro) evolve independently of each other.
The reduction or loss of interbreeding (gene flow, sharing of mutations) between the daughter populations results in different, independent, evolutionary responses in the daughter populations to their respective and different ecological challenges and opportunities (including the existence and impact of the other daughter population/s on survival).
Independent evolution within each subpopulation results in divergence of the subpopulations from each other. Divergent speciation forms a branching pattern of descent from a common ancestor pool, and results in added diversity of species. Further instances of divergent speciation adds further to the branching pattern and results in a nested hierarchy pattern.
                         |
                         ^ a
                        / \
                       /   \
                      /     \
                     /       ^ b
                    /       / \
                   /       /   \
                  e       d     c 
Phyletic speciation with the development of new species by extended microevolution in a lineage of descent has been observed to occur, and thus this aspect of macroevolution is an observed, known objective fact, and not an untested hypothesis.
Divergent speciation with the development of new species by the reproductive isolation of daughter populations has been observed to occur, and thus this aspect of macroevolution is an observed, known objective fact, and not an untested hypothesis.
The formation of nested hierarchies of descent from common ancestor populations has been observed to occur, and thus this aspect of macroevolution is an observed, known objective fact, and not an untested hypothesis.
The addition to diversity by increasing the number of species and higher groupings has been observed to occur, and thus this aspect of macroevolution is an observed, known objective fact, and not an untested hypothesis.
One single example that shows all of these processes in the fossil record is:
Thus the essential difference between microevolution and macroevolution is divergent speciation and the resulting formation of nested hierarchies.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : minor revs/adds

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 96 of 908 (670811)
08-19-2012 2:27 PM


So, Big_Al35, what is MACROevolution?
in Peppered Moths and Natural Selection Message 327 Big_Al35 says
You and some others here have introduced mutation into the equation. This may account for genuine micro-evolution but has nothing to do with the example I was discussing.
Can you define micro-evolution?
Can you define macro-evolution?
Enjoy.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
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Message 98 of 908 (671217)
08-23-2012 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by Big_Al35
08-23-2012 7:45 AM


Re: So, Big_Al35, what is MACROevolution?
Hi Big_Al35
RAZD writes:
Can you define micro-evolution?
Can you define macro-evolution?
Can you?
Yes.
Do you want to discuss those definitions* and see where you agree\disagree and why?
Do you want to do it here (with comments made by other people as well), or would another format (say a "Great Debate" as a one-to-one discussion) be more acceptable?
Enjoy.
* Note that I can also back up my definitions with common use in the field of biology and references to actual course material used in university courses.

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RAZD
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Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
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Message 108 of 908 (671244)
08-23-2012 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Big_Al35
08-23-2012 10:39 AM


what is macroevolution?
Hi Big_Al35
RAZD writes:
Do you want to discuss those definitions* and see where you agree\disagree and why?
Please define macro-evolution for me and maybe we can take it from there?
That's starting from the top down rather than the bottom up, so we will then need to fill in the definitions that go into it, but here goes:
(A) The process of macroevolution involves forming a nested hierarchy by descent of new species from common ancestor populations, via the combination of divergent speciation and phyletic speciation, and thus resulting in an increase in the diversity of life.
Simply put, the species that exist at a point in time are different from their ancestors, and there are new species compared to the ancestral populations.
Note that a process is something that is ongoing, something that can be observed in some way, and not a theory.
Note further that both these types of speciation have been observed in the natural world as well as in the fossil record.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : subtitle

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
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(1)
Message 109 of 908 (671247)
08-23-2012 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Big_Al35
08-23-2012 1:01 PM


Re: Definitions - macro, micro, are they different?
Hi Big_Al35
Which one is it? ...
They mean the same thing, but we can use the one I just gave you in message 108: what is macroevolution? for this discussion.
... And why would you need a definition from me when you have so many available to yourself?
To make sure we are using the same meaning, and not just the same sounds.
It is important in science to be specific about meanings of words used in order to communicate ideas clearly, and this is why it is important to use the scientific usages when discussing science.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : link change

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RAZD
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Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
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Message 151 of 908 (671559)
08-27-2012 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Big_Al35
08-23-2012 1:52 PM


Re: So, Big_Al35, what is MACROevolution?
Hi Big_Al35,
Sorry for the delay, but I've been recovering from chemo and it isn't pretty.
Just to clarify can you give me an example of this in the natural world?
First we need to understand what "this" is -- in this case speciation.
What do you think speciation is?
This may seem round about as answers go, but we need to understand each other.
Enjoy

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RAZD
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Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
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Message 157 of 908 (810192)
05-25-2017 6:27 AM


reviving this thread ...
A lot of time has passed since I started this thread, and I've learned a lot in the process ... from Introduction to Evolution (work in progress)
quote:
An Introduction to Evolution
(1) The process of evolution involves changes in the composition of hereditary traits, and changes to the frequency of their distributions within breeding populations from generation to generation, in response to ecological challenges and opportunities for growth, development, survival and reproductive success in changing or different habitats.
This is sometimes called microevolution, however this is the process through which all species evolve and all evolution occurs at the breeding population level.
Mutations to existing hereditary traits (ie for eyes and ears) can cause changes in the composition of hereditary traits for individuals in a breeding population, but not all mutations are expressed (and many are in non-hereditary areas). In addition there are many different kinds of mutations and they have different effects (from small to large), especially if they affect the developmental process of an organism.
Natural Selection and Neutral Drift can cause changes in the frequency distribution of hereditary traits within a breeding population, but they are not the only mechanisms known that does so. Selection processes act on the expressed genes of individual organisms, so bundles of genetic mutations are selected rather than individual genes, and this means that non-lethal mutations can be preserved. The more an individual organism reproduces the more it is likely to pass on bundles of genes and mutations to the next generation, increasing the selection of those genes.
The ecological challenges and opportunities change when the environment changes, when the breeding population evolves, when other organisms within the ecology evolve, when migrations change the mixture of organisms within the ecology, and when a breeding population immigrates into a new ecology. These changes can result in different survival and reproductive challenges and opportunities, affecting selection pressure, perhaps causing speciation, perhaps causing extinction.
This is a two-step feedback response system that is repeated in each generation:
Like walking on first one foot and then the next.
Mutations of hereditary traits have been observed to occur, and thus this aspect of evolution is an observed, known objective fact, rather than an untested hypothesis.
Different mixing of existing hereditary traits (ie Mendelian inheritance patterns) have been observed to occur, and thus this aspect of evolution is an observed, known objective fact, rather than an untested hypothesis.
Natural selection has been observed to occur, along with the observed alteration in the distribution of hereditary traits within breeding populations, and thus this aspect of evolution is an observed, known objective fact, and not an untested hypothesis
Neutral drift has been observed to occur, along with the observed alteration in the distribution of hereditary traits within breeding populations, and thus this aspect of evolution is an observed, known objective fact, and not an untested hypothesis.
Thus many processes of evolution are observed, known objective facts, and not untested hypothesies.
If we look at the continued effects of evolution over many generations, the accumulation of changes from generation to generation may become sufficient for individuals to develop combinations of traits that are observably different from the ancestral parent population.
(2) The process of lineal change within species is sometimes called phyletic speciation, or anagenesis.
This is also sometimes called arbitrary speciation in that the place to draw the line between linearly evolved genealogical populations is subjective, and because the definition of species in general is tentative and sometimes arbitrary.
If anagenesis was all that occurred, then all life would be one species, readily sharing DNA via horizontal transfer (asexual) and interbreeding (sexual) and various combinations. This is not the case, however, because there is a second process that results in multiple species and increases the diversity of life.
(3) The process of divergent speciation, or cladogenesis, involves the division of a parent population into two or more reproductively isolated daughter populations, which then are free to (micro) evolve independently of each other.
The reduction or loss of interbreeding (gene flow, sharing of mutations) between the sub-populations results in different evolutionary responses within the separated sub-populations, each then responds independently to their different ecological challenges and opportunities, and this leads to divergence of hereditary traits between the subpopulations and the frequency of their distributions within the sub-populations.
Over generations phyletic change occurs in these populations, the responses to different ecologies accumulate into differences between the hereditary traits available within each of the daughter populations, and when these differences have reached a critical level, such that interbreeding no longer occurs, then the formation of new species is deemed to have occurred. After this has occurred each daughter population microevolves independently of the other/s. These are often called speciation events because the development of species is not arbitrary in this process.
If we looked at each branch linearly, while ignoring the sister population, they would show anagenesis (accumulation of evolutionary changes over many generations), and this shows that the same basic processes of evolution within breeding populations are involved in each branch.
An additional observable result of speciation events, however, is a branching of the genealogical history for the species involved, where two or more offspring daughter species are each independently descended from the same common pool of the ancestor parent species. At this point a clade has been formed, consisting of the common ancestor species and all of their descendants.
With multiple speciation events, a pattern is formed that looks like a branching bush or tree: the tree of descent from common ancestor populations. Each branching point is a node for a clade of the parent species at the node point and all their descendants, and with multiple speciation events we see a pattern form of clades branching from parent ancestor species and nesting within larger clades branching from older parent ancestor species.
Where A, B, C and G represent speciation events and the common ancestor populations of a clade that includes the common ancestor species and all their descendants: C and below form a clade that is part of the B clade, B and below form a clade that is also part of the A clade; G and below also form a clade that is also part of the A clade, but the G clade is not part of the B clade.
The process of forming a nested hierarchy by descent of new species from common ancestor populations, via the combination of anagenesis and cladogenesis, and resulting in an increase in the diversity of life, is sometimes called macroevolution. This is often confusing, because there is no additional mechanism of evolution involved, rather this is just the result of looking at evolution over many generations and different ecologies.
The process of anagenesis, with the accumulation of changes over many generations, is an observed, known objective fact, and not an untested hypothesis.
The process of cladogenesis, with the subsequent formation of a branching nested genealogy of descent from common ancestor populations is an observed, known objective fact, and not an untested hypothesis.
This means that the basic processes of "macroevolution" are observed, known objective facts, and not untested hypothesies, even if major groups of species are not observed forming (which would take many many generations).
(4) The Theory of Evolution (ToE), stated in simple terms, is that the process of anagenesis, and the process of cladogenesis, are sufficient to explain the diversity of life as we know it, from the fossil record, from the genetic record, from the historic record, and from everyday record of the life we observe in the world all around us.
This theory is tested by experiments and field observations carried out as part of the science of evolution.
If a species is observed to change over generations (anagenesis), we can predict that it will be due to (a) changes in the expressed hereditary traits (genes, morphology, development), (b) that the changes were either neutral or improved the survival and reproductive success of individuals in response to their ecological challenges and opportunities and (c) that if they improved the fitness of the carriers that it will spread within the breeding population in following generations.
If a clade is observed to form (cladogenesis), we can predict that it will be due to (a) reproductive isolation between daughter populations and (b) independent evolution (anagenesis) within each daughter population. We can also predict the formation of the clade will fall within a nested hierarchy pattern.
These predictions can be tested against the fossil record, the genetic record, the historical record, and the everyday record of life we observe in the world all around us. Biologists have been testing this theory for 150 plus years, and thus far they have confirmed that the process of evolution, and the process of speciation, are sufficient to explain the diversity of life as we know it.
Enjoy.
General references and further study resources
  1. Berkeley U. and U. of California Museum of Paleontology Teachers Guide
    An introduction to evolution - Understanding Evolution
  2. U. of Michigan on-line course material
    The Process of Speciation
  3. Talk Origins Introduction to Evolutionary Biology
    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-biology.html
  4. Overview of cladistics by Wikipedia
    Cladistics - Wikipedia

Edited by RAZD, : .
Edited by RAZD, : .

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
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Message 183 of 908 (810683)
05-31-2017 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by CRR
05-31-2017 8:02 AM


However as far as I can tell from the article the record starts with forams and ends with forams. Rather than seeing "hundreds of speciation events" they have documented the development of hundreds of varieties of the same species. Thus we have not observed "macro"evolution in this case.
You do realize that foraminifera is a subphylum ... right? So this is like saying you started with placental mammals and you ended with placental mammals and all that is documented is varieties of placental mammals ...
quote:
Foraminifera (/fəˌrməˈnɪfərə/, Latin meaning hole bearers, informally called "forams") are members of a phylum or class of amoeboid protists characterized by streaming granular ectoplasm that among other things are used for catching food, and commonly by an external shell or "test" made of various materials and constructed in diverse forms. Chitin test is found in some very simple genera & believed to be most primitive type. Chitin test is characterize in genera Textularia. All but perhaps a very few are aquatic and most are marine, the majority of which live on or within the seafloor sediment (i.e., are benthic) while a smaller variety are floaters in the water column at various depths (i.e., are planktonic). A few are known from freshwater or brackish conditions and some soil species have been identified through molecular analysis of small subunit ribosomal DNA.[1][2]
Scientific classification
Domain: Eukaryota
(unranked): SAR
(unranked): Rhizaria
Phylum: Retaria
Subphylum: Foraminifera

The Linnaean taxonomic system was developed ~200 years ago but the concept and definition of species has changed since. Since there are known hybrids between Linnaean species and genera it does not fit well the Biological Species concept based on the ability to produce viable offspring. Perhaps we should be using different words for Linnaean vs Biological species but for now the word "species" can have different meanings. For now at least the Linnaean taxonomic system provides a way for scientists to specify particular organisms.
Yep the Linnaean system is becoming more and more unworkable as we develop the cladistics further, see the "unranked" categories above, inserted because the Linnaean system wasn't adequate to explain the evidence. Isn't it great how science adapt to new information, rather than cling with dogmatic fervor to unreasonable views? With cladistics we don't need to worry about problems cause by an artificial classification system such as Linneaus developed: it has served it's purpose, but it is time to retire.
Also with cladistics we see that the important element is genetic isolation -- the lack of breeding behavior is sufficient. There is also a braided pattern that occurs during the speciation process -- see Interweaving Evolution & Hybrid Vigor for more.
Enjoy

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
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Message 185 of 908 (810726)
06-01-2017 6:17 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by CRR
06-01-2017 1:48 AM


The "foram" subphylum
A "foram" is a single-celled ocean plankton, either free-floating or else bottom dwelling.
The series starts with a single-celled ocean plankton, and ends with a single-celled ocean plankton. Or more specifically the fossil shells of a single-celled ocean plankton.
Yes a rather generic description for the whole Subphylum. Just like a description of mammals as "... a clade of endothermic amniotes distinguished from reptiles (including birds) by the possession of a neocortex (a region of the brain), hair, three middle ear bones and mammary glands. Females of all mammal species nurse their young with milk, secreted from the mammary glands." ... and of course the descendants of mammals will always be mammals ...
The summary article you linked to is based on the one I provided in Message 1 and it goes on to say
quote:
The overall sequence is so enormous because the tiny fossils can fit between grains of sand, and escape being crushed. The sequence was very hard to study until recently, when a computerized system was developed. It can identify and classify forams, and it is connected to a microscope.
Classify the genus and species of the forams in the study. When we go to the article in Message 1 that this data is taken from they say
quote:
EVOLUTION AT SEA COMPLETE FOSSIL RECORD FROM THE OCEAN UPHOLDS DARWIN'S GRADUALISM THEORIES
About 330 species of living and extinct planktonic forams have been classified so far. ...
We've literally seen hundreds of speciation events," says Arnold. "This allows us to check for patterns, to determine what exactly is going on. We can quickly tell whether something is a recurring phenomenon--a pattern--or whether it's just an anomally. This way, we cannot only look for the same things that have been observed in living organisms, but we can see just how often these things really happen in the environment over an enormous period of time.
As he speaks, Arnold shows a series of microphotographs, depicting the evolutionary change wrought on a single foram species. "This is the same organism, as it existed through 500,000 years," he says. "We've got hundreds of examples like this, complete life and evolutionary histories for dozens of species."
... scientists have theorized, but never been able to demonstrate, that in the absence of competition, an explosion of life takes place. The evolution of new species greatly accelerates, and a profusion of body shapes and sizes bursts across the horizon, filling up vacant spaces like weeds overtaking a pristine lawn. An array of new forms fans out into these limited niches, where crowding soon forces most of the new forms to spin out into oblivion similar to sparks from a bonfire.
The ancient record of foram evolution reveals that the story of recovery after extinction is indeed busy and colorful. "What we've found suggests that the rate of speciation increases dramatically in a biological vacuum," says Parker. "After the Cretaceous extinction, the few surviving foram species rapidly evolved into new species, and for the first time we're able to see just how this happens, and how fast."
As the available niches fill up with these new creatures, the speciation rates slow down, and the pressure from competition between species appears to bear down in earnest. The extinction rate then rises accordingly. This scenario, says Arnold, suggests that the speciation process is sensitive to how fully packed the biosphere is with other species, not the number of individuals. ...
Many speciation events, hundreds of species lineages, a virtually complete fossil record with all the transitionals ...
The only evolution in evidence is the shape of the shells.
Yep little critters, but we get the whole skeleton in these fossils. Is this a problem for you?
As noted in Message 1: "This is the essence of the debate: when does change become sufficient to be "macro"evolution and how does it occur."
For scientists using the technical definition for "macro"evolution this occurs when we have speciation and the formation of nested hierarchies of descent. This is seen in multitudes in this record of the Foraminifera subphylum.
If you want to see more change than that, you are going to have to define when it will be enough to convince you. Like the people quoted in Message 1 that somehow never really got around to doing that.
It seems a common creationist ploy -- as long as you never define something like this then you can argue it hasn't occurred ... all you need to do is move the goalposts every time evidence is presented.
Enjoy

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by CRR, posted 06-01-2017 1:48 AM CRR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by CRR, posted 06-01-2017 7:30 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 187 of 908 (810847)
06-02-2017 6:36 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by CRR
06-01-2017 7:30 AM


Re: The "foram" subphylum
Why?
You should ask the scientists, I only report what they said (and that others agreed with). Of course that would mean effort on your part, but it is not my job to do your homework.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by CRR, posted 06-01-2017 7:30 AM CRR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by CRR, posted 06-02-2017 10:55 PM RAZD has replied

  
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