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Author | Topic: Abductive Reasoning In Science | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
I think that "rational" would be better than "logical" in this context. The limits of pure deductive logic are well known, by the way. That's why science is an empirical enterprise.
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nwr Member Posts: 6409 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
It's clear simply from the description that abduction is logically fallacious.
Correct.
But it's clear from history and the existence of technology that scientific abduction produces useful, accurate information about the natural world.
No, that is not at all clear. I believe it to be false. What is clear, is that scientific methods that have produced useful accurate information will said by some to have arisen via abduction.Jesus was a liberal hippie
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1488 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Abduction is logical, it is one of the modes of logical reasoning (ie., deductive, inductive and abductive). It is not deductively valid. I grant that it is a mode of reasoning, but I'm not seeing how it's a mode of logical reasoning. By definition, the process of abduction is committing the formal fallacy of ad hoc, ergo propter hoc. How can a valid mode of logical reasoning be a fallacy? By "logical" do you just mean "rational"? What I mean by "logical" is "valid within formal logic."
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1488 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
No, that is not at all clear. I believe it to be false. What is clear, is that scientific methods that have produced useful accurate information will said by some to have arisen via abduction. I'm not prepared to have that discussion with you.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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By "logical" do you just mean "rational"? What I mean by "logical" is "valid within formal logic." Wiki on logic:
quote: From wiki on Abductive reasoning:
quote: That's what I mean when I say 'Abduction is logical'. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2719 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
I'm not sure I quite understand the distinction between inductive reasoning and abductive reasoning. From what I've read here, it sounds like abductive reasoning is sort of a special case of inductive reasoning.
I've understood inductive reasoning to be like this: All crows I have seen are blackTherefore, all crows are black And, from what I've understood here about abductive reasoning, it's similar, except that you also propose an explanation for why all crows are black. So, you're not just extrapolating from a pattern, but you're actually trying to explain the pattern you've seen. Am I understanding it correctly?-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus) Darwin loves you.
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Panda Member (Idle past 3734 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined:
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Blue Jay writes:
That is also (from what I have read) how I understand it to work. Am I understanding it correctly? If I oversleep and go downstairs and see a cereal bowl in the sink then I can assume that my girlfriend has had breakfast.I can do this because I have seen her eat breakfast from that type of bowl and seen her put the bowl in the sink. Certainly, as with inductive reasoning, I could be wrong: a kidnapper might have taken my GF and had breakfast before leaving (and with some weird social conscience, put the bowl in the sink).But that is very unlikely. To think it was a kidnapper I would need to find signs that a kidnapper had been there.But, until there is evidence of a kidnapper, I could be confident of my initial conclusion that my GF had eaten breakfast. It is a difference in temporal direction.Inductive reasoning 'predicts' the future based on a pattern we have seen. Abductive reasoning 'predicts' the past based on a pattern we have seen. "There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Straggler Member Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Crash writes: I'd like to get at what you mean by "valid." Logically valid? In this thread I don't think it is for me to stipulate what is "valid" and what is not. There are those who might suggest that science is not a "valid" pursuit because it relies on methods and principles that are not deductively sound. I would not agree with those people. But I would be interested to hear from them. You seem to be suggesting that science isn't logically valid and that logic isn't scientifically valid. If that is the case I would suggest you are using too narrow-a-definition of what is "logically valid". But the point of this thread is to discus such issues in relation to abductive reasoning rather than for me to define "validity" from the beginning.
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Straggler Member Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
BluJ writes: So, you're not just extrapolating from a pattern, but you're actually trying to explain the pattern you've seen. Based on a body of evidence and the predictive power of the theory in question having been previously verified we legitimately conclude that another example which fits said theory and it's predictions is explained by said theory. The new data fits the pattern established by the theory so the theory is abductively concluded to apply to the new data. Or something like that.....
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4 |
1) How widely is abductive reasoning used in science? 2) Is abductive reasoning a valid tool for science to use in formulating theories? 3) What are some key examples of abductive reasoning relevant to the sort of science topics regularly covered at EvC (Evolution, Big Bang, Age of earth etc. etc. etc.)? 4) Can we 'do science' without abductive reasoning? Or is it a vital component of the scientific method? Abductive reasoning, as described, is the hypothetico-deductive method's retarded little brother. Science doesn't use the abductive method save in hypothesis construction. What it does it kick it up a notch and predict the consequences. If I predict that result B will follow from action A and then it does then I have powerful evidence for my theory C that predicted B->A before I test it but terribly weak evidence for newly formulated theory D that also claims B->A.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1488 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
You seem to be suggesting that science isn't logically valid and that logic isn't scientifically valid. If I can avoid a "what do words mean" type of conversation by saying so, then let me try to clarify - I guess what I'm saying is that it's difficult to reconcile formal logic with empiricism or abduction. Or, for that matter, induction. Many philosophers of science have construed this as a problem with empiricism and abduction - Hume's inductive fallacy, for instance. Other philosophers, for instance the apparent authors of the Wikipedia article on abduction, expand the scope of logic to envelop modes of reasoning beyond the formal deductive. I choose to construe the issue as being a problem with logic, one that largely relegates logic to the status of an amusing parlor game as opposed to a useful tool for grappling with the world.
If that is the case I would suggest you are using too narrow-a-definition of what is "logically valid". That may be, because I like to keep "valid" distinct from "true." A proposition in logic is valid when it descends from premises by means of logical transformations that preserve truth values. A proposition in logic is true when it descends validly from premises that are true. Most of the time. Of course, per Godel, under some circumstances a proposition can be valid but not true. I guess what I'm getting at is, I'm much less interested in whether abductive reasoning is logically valid, since it is useful and true, which is more important.
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2719 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined:
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Hi, Straggler.
Strag writes: Based on a body of evidence and the predictive power of the theory in question having been previously verified we legitimately conclude that another example which fits said theory and it's predictions is explained by said theory. The new data fits the pattern established by the theory so the theory is abductively concluded to apply to the new data. You mean, like this:
Black feathers help blackbirds hide in the dark. ?Crows have black feathers. Black feathers help crows hide in the dark Your OP quote says abduction is equivalent to "affirming the consequent," but the above sounds more like "argument from analogy." It sounds to me like abduction is just the action of proposing a hypothesis for a set of observations.-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus) Darwin loves you.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 306 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
A common creationist confusion along these lines pertains to dating, the geologic column and fossils. The creationist misunderstanding/complaint is based on thinking that fossils are dated by their position in the geologic column whilst the layers of the geologic column are dated by means of which fossils they contain. I think that's a different mistake. I don't know if there's a formal name for it, so I hereby christen it "being a fucking halfwit".
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 306 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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I would go so far to suggest that if scientific abduction is illogical, that exposes a problem with logic, not with scientific abduction. Actually, neither. Saying that this is "a problem with logic" is like saying that there's a problem with bicycles because they don't keep the rain off your head. But it is not really a "problem with bicycles" that they're not umbrellas. Logic does exactly what it is purported to do. It's not a problem with it that it doesn't do other things. A bicycle is not a defective umbrella, and logic is not a defective form of the scientific method.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 306 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I grant that it is a mode of reasoning, but I'm not seeing how it's a mode of logical reasoning. By definition, the process of abduction is committing the formal fallacy of ad hoc, ergo propter hoc. That's what wikipedia says, but it is at variance with their definition of abduction.
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