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Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Cognitive Dissonance and Cultural Beliefs | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Panda Member (Idle past 3741 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined:
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I'm not sure what more to contribute to your thread.
You have covered most of the points. So I thought I would describe my own experience of cognitive dissonance...
quote:I have never found it uncomfortable, per se. It puts me in a state on confusion rather than discomfort. I am left figuratively looking left then right and then left again, trying to figure out what I actually think.The only solution to this is to do research (i.e. google it). At this point I have to be very aware of confirmation bias by actively seeking both sides of the argument. But my confusion is quite neutral, so I don't actually 'struggle' against a particular side. The only real bias I have at that point is based on the history of the proponents I am using to find out more information.If (e.g.) Fox news is the only advocate for a particular position then I will give their claims far less weight than (e.g.) a university professor. Due to the lack of discomfort caused by cognitive dissonance, I don't really mind experiencing it.I view it as a good reason for me to learn more. "There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3741 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined:
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RAZD writes:
I agree - 'irritation' (or maybe 'niggle') is a better choice of word. Perhaps a better term to use here would be irritation rather than discomfort per se.It annoys me enough to do something about it, but not enough for me to have to rush to a conclusion. RAZD writes: ...unless my most cherished belief is that I don't know anything.
... rather than someone trying to reinforce strong beliefs. RAZD writes:
Maybe my world view is based on the fact that I know I don't know everything - and I know that the things that I think I know might be wrong. It seems fairly clear to me now that everyone's personal worldview (embedded within their cultural worldview), and it's impact on accepting and learning new information is their personal cognitive dissonance bubble, their worldview bubble, with the strength of the bubble wall being dependent on the tenacity of strongly held personal beliefs vs the willingness to discard falsified concepts and incorporate new ones.I have no blind certainty about anything - and I am ok with that. But it makes 'changing my mind' comparatively easy - as I was already part-way there. RAZD writes:
This sounds more like a person's normal ignorance of other people's motives, rather than cognitive dissonance. Perhaps the biggest dissonance I experience now is trying to understand why some people struggle so much with accepting evidence when it seems so natural to me, and perhaps this is what has led me here.What would be the conflicting facts that cause this dissonance? Perhaps this is more like the psychological behaviour where we expect others to think the same as we do? (I can't remember it's name.) "There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3741 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined:
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I was thinking of the False-consensus effect (which conveniently was on the page you linked).
quote:p.s. Your url is formatted incorrectly. "There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3741 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
RADZ writes: And yet, for the record, you could not let the discussion go (and still can't?), perhaps because your "resolution" is such a strong conviction that you are correct that you don't need to change ... but you have a nagging discomfort ...? And yet, for the record, you could not let the discussion go (and still can't?), perhaps because your "resolution" is such a strong conviction that you are correct that you don't need to change ... but you have a nagging discomfort ...? It seems strange for you to accuse Straggler of "not let[ting] the discussion go" when it was you that re-started it in Message 24 and continue to argue about it.But it seems less strange when your behaviour is viewed from the PoV of cognitive dissonance. I suspect that your own cognitive dissonance about your belief in an unevidenced deity causes you several problems - that discussion being one of them.I am wondering if this whole thread is actually to give you comfort, where you can describe others and say to yourself: "They are as conflicted as I am!" But Straggler denies having any discomfort - and you seem unable to accept that.I too feel/felt no discomfort during the PseudoScience discussion. But I don't expect you to believe me either. What reason would you give for someone denying the personal claims of others without any supportive evidence?Sounds like cognitive dissonance to me... "There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3741 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
RAZD writes:
If reducing discomfort is the 'aim' of CD then annoyance doesn't seem a likely candidate.
People experiencing surprise, dread, guilt, anger, or embarrassment should certainly suspect that they are confronting dissonant information, but what about other behaviors? What about annoyance? RAZD writes:
I think the first example ("show that it actually is erroneous") is not correct. 3A. How does one change the new dissonant information coming in? A couple of ways are:
The normal way is to simply claim that something is erroneous - but be unable to explain why.And, appropriately, they would think the people that disagreed with them were being stupid, ignorant, deluded, insane or wicked. But actually proving something is wrong is unlikely, imhysao. Because surely the only people that feel CD are those whose world views are contradicted by reality.The only person that would (e.g.) show that the earth is 4.5 million years old is a palaeontologist. And a palaeontologist feels no CD over the age of the earth. When palaeontologist argues with a YEC it is not with any discomfort associated with cognitive dissonance. RAZD writes:
This sounds as if you are claiming that people are affected by CD when discussing any subject? I also believe that anyone that does not believe they are personally affected by cognitive dissonance is either:
Or perhaps I am reading too much in to it? RAZD writes:
Do you not wonder why you felt the need to add a 6th? And here I add the 6th:
Particularly since there is no evidence of anyone being omniscient? Odd behaviour indeed. Should we then add a 7th? And an 8th?
It is amazing what our imaginations can conjure up. RAZD writes:
An agnostic deist? For instance, I recognize that my belief in the possibility of god/s is at odds with the logic that says the only deductively rational position is agnostic, that anything else relies on guess\opinion\bias\hunch\conjecture, and I reduce this conflict by tending to be an agnostic leaning deist with an open-minded skepticism, and that I choose to guess in favor of god/s because of my worldview bias.A sceptical believer? Thank god I am an atheist!"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3741 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
RAZD writes:
It is definitely possible that only one side feels CD. Of course -- do you think CD is not reciprocal? that only one side experiences it? that one side is necessarily correct? what about muslims\jews\christians arguing over Jerusalem?How much CD do you feel when a YEC claims that the Earth is ~6000 years old? RAZD writes:
Did you post that to mitigate your own CD? Panda writes: So the Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 thread is all for naught? The only person that would (e.g.) show that the earth is 4.5 million years old is a palaeontologist.If not then my point stands. Your first example of how someone would change the new dissonant information coming in ("show that it actually is erroneous") is not correct.
RAZD writes:
You missed my point. I'd likely put them under stupid or deluded ... but I open to considering other categories that can be defined as groups.I suspect on purpose - but I guess it could be CD. RAZD writes:
And again. lol - and that is a group as well."There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3741 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Dr. A. writes:
But Straggler's issue was with RAZD pointing at both elephants and hat-stands and calling them both mammals - or at least not being able to distinguish between them; simply assuming they are both mammals. This is why I gave an elephant as an example of a mammal, rather than a hat-stand."There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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Panda Member (Idle past 3741 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined:
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RAZD writes:
Are you really unable to see that you are guilty of the very behaviour you criticise bluegenes for? ??? Your complaint against BG clearly applies far more accurately to someone who is unable to answer the childishly simple question: "Did a human make this painting of a boat?" Ask yourself: what are you hiding from?"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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