Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,806 Year: 3,063/9,624 Month: 908/1,588 Week: 91/223 Day: 2/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Motivation for Denying God and Accepting Evolution
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 12 of 39 (673382)
09-18-2012 5:12 PM


Is Genologist the least bit interested in this topic? I thought his first question was far more thought provoking. Most of the answers I see so far seem to deny the entire premise behind the motivation question.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own. George Bernard Shaw

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 20 of 39 (673506)
09-19-2012 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Genologist
09-19-2012 12:31 PM


Put up time.
I'm not going to take on much of the science part of your post, because the issue of whether evolution is correct is only marginally on topic. I did want to comment on this part:
I assert that there is a religious ambition to exclude a Creator.- Ask a bunch of high school students today if they feel that they have been taught the TOE as fact and I'm pretty sure most will say yes, indeed if you observe the exam questions, they at the very least treat the theory as fact.
I'll note that high school students do not choose what is taught in biology or what questions are going to appear on their exams. So what you are describing here is not a motivation by students to create space between them and their creator, but rather a fiendish plot by scientists and others to keep those students away from a relationship with God.
In fact, inherent in your entire post, including the on topic portions of it, is a belief that biologists are completely insincere about biology and that evolution is just a giant fraud. I am quite sure that you are sincerely convinced that evolution is just a fraud, but I am equally as well convinced that you don't have the knowledge to understand why biologist do accept evolution as the reason for the variation in life on this planet. Your assertions that these scientists are perpetrating a fraud are mere assertions, and, I hope to demonstrate, badly informed. I accept that I am not going to convince you of that, but I'd like to get past mere assertions.
I'd appreciate it if you would cite the biology text that you allege presents abiogenesis as theory, indistingushable from and serving as the basis for the theory of evolution. If the text originated in the US, I can predict without seeing it, that it does nothing of the sort. Maybe in Zimbabwe books are different, but I doubt even that. I suspect that we can gain an insight into your thought processes by comparing what is actually in those texts and your impressions as expressed here.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own. George Bernard Shaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Genologist, posted 09-19-2012 12:31 PM Genologist has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 33 of 39 (673664)
09-21-2012 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by ICANT
09-21-2012 1:51 AM


Science is a cult? Projection at its finest.
Abiogenesis is relevant because without abiogenesis there would be no evolution as there would be nothing to evolve.
The statement is both true and of little consequence. Your logic has a gaping hole, and I find it surprising that you cannot see it on your own.
Abiogenesis is of consequence from the standpoint of someone who wants to defend creationism. Both evolution and abiogenesis are separately contrary to a fundamentalist interpretation of Genesis. You believe that all life is specially created. So for you Genesis means no abiogenesis and no evolution. Evidence that man evolved is problematic for you even if abiogenesis never rises above speculation.
But that issue is of zero concern to scientists and to most Christians. I understand that it is hard for you to accept that, but it is the true reason why most Christians don't share your position and have no religious conflict with the theory of evolution.
We don't need to know the origin of everything to study biology any more than we need it to study chemistry.
But without knowing how either began to exist you can not make a statement that life and the universe was not created by a spiritual being.
Again, your statement is true. But to know that however, life began, the origin of the human race is not as described by a fundamentalist Christian's reading of Genesis requires far less evidence. In fact, it requires nothing more than the evidence we do have for evolution and natural history.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own. George Bernard Shaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by ICANT, posted 09-21-2012 1:51 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by ICANT, posted 09-21-2012 11:20 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 38 of 39 (673717)
09-21-2012 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by ICANT
09-21-2012 11:20 AM


Motivation for accepting evolution
In the interest of staying on topic, I have to avoid responding to most of your message. But I think the following point is germane.
The motivation for accepting evolution is that the evidence leads to the conclusion that evolution is responsible for speciation on this planet. Period.
The evidence need not be of the type you would require or have outlined, as there are other lines of evidence available that while indirect, do not require a time machine. Denying those other lines of evidence and argument does not mean that they do not exist, or that the evidence is insufficient to reach a scientific conclusion.
I understand that such evidence is insufficient to convince you of the reality of evolution, but then you have fairly strong science denying mechanisms; like assuming that physics works differently when events take place behind your back.
Edited by NoNukes, : typo

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
Choose silence of all virtues, for by it you hear other men's imperfections, and conceal your own. George Bernard Shaw

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by ICANT, posted 09-21-2012 11:20 AM ICANT has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024