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Author Topic:   It's a Sad Day For the Future Of American Children.
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 106 of 111 (67372)
11-18-2003 1:06 PM


Well, the topics activity meter has pegged out, which means that there has been at least 50 new messages in the past 48 hours.
I haven't been following this all closely, but there does seem to be some good discussion happening. Unfortunately, most of that discussion belongs in other topics. I find it sad that fine statements are getting buried somewhere they don't belong.
I'll leave the topic open, to see if it gets back on track (my bet - it won't). Please review the start of the topic, to get a feel for what the on topic theme is.
Adminnemooseus
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Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by keith63, posted 11-18-2003 1:15 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied
 Message 111 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-18-2003 1:16 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

keith63
Inactive Member


Message 107 of 111 (67373)
11-18-2003 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by sidelined
11-18-2003 12:23 PM


Another point that I just thought of. When God cast Adam and Eve out of the garden of eden He said "from dust you came, and from dust you will return" Now that we know so much of decomposition and the fact that we are made from the elements of the Earth, how correct was that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by sidelined, posted 11-18-2003 12:23 PM sidelined has not replied

roxrkool
Member (Idle past 1010 days)
Posts: 1497
From: Nevada
Joined: 03-23-2003


Message 108 of 111 (67377)
11-18-2003 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by keith63
11-18-2003 11:55 AM


keith63, no one here is denying that free oxygen existed in the early atmosphere, we are simply saying there was very little of it. The earliest fossils (cyanobacteria) date back to approx. 3.5 billion years (though this is still controversial!), so oxygen was most likely being produced. However, it appears that the oxygen was most likely being taken up almost immediately by the Fe-rich oceans, or the bacteria themselves, resulting in the banded iron formations quetzal mentioned. The atmosphere itself does not show any appreciable amounts of O2 until after the Archean.
Your idea of a transitional fossil is completely misguided, unfortunately. What you are describing is a deformed mutant that would not be able to reproduce. You are thinking in terms of a freak of nature. The fossil of a mammal that can't quite live in the ocean nor on land would never exist long enough to reproduce. It would die immediately.
What you do see are mammals that live in the ocean but are air-breathing. The can exist in both worlds. You see turtles that live in water and others than live on land. Given time those turtles will go their own separate ways and possibly become unrecognizable as turtles some day. That doesn't mean all the other turtles also have to change. Just the ones who are pressured to do so by their environment.
The process of fossilization is difficult enough and now you expect us to find freaks of nature? Organisms that have a one in a million chance of ever being produced in the first place? You need to learn more about the true nature and form of transitional fossils.
quote:
As far as Archaeopteryx is concerned I have read and provided the citation showing it is just a bird.
What about the non-bird-like traits that it exhibits? Where's the beak? It has ventral ribs that are present in reptiles but not birds? You showed why it's a bird, but it also has characteristics not found in birds but in reptiles. Sure sounds a lot like a transitional organism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by keith63, posted 11-18-2003 11:55 AM keith63 has not replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9003
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 109 of 111 (67380)
11-18-2003 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by keith63
11-18-2003 1:04 PM


Keith, you still seem to want MORE teaching of evolutionary theory and the evidence for it.
I was expecting a scientific theory that is different from ToE with an equivalent explanation for what we do know and some different predictions that could be tested to show that it is a *better* scientific explanation for the facts before us.
On an AdminNosy note:
I think that bringing all the various subtopics into this one thread will confuse things terribly. There are threads on abiogenesis, transitional fossils etc. It would help if those threads were used to thrash out the details of your objections.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by keith63, posted 11-18-2003 1:04 PM keith63 has not replied

keith63
Inactive Member


Message 110 of 111 (67382)
11-18-2003 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Adminnemooseus
11-18-2003 1:06 PM


Agreed!! Instead of a sad day this appears to be a liberating day which allows scientific evidence (including evolution)to be discussed in an open matter without using litigation to censor out views that are considered incorrect by some. By the way I believe the polls I have seen say that over 80% of the public thinks the topic should be discussed openly. It seem that only the disciples of evolution want to hide or censor information. And my original point still stands. If you think intelligent design is so bad then why not allow the public to discuss it openly. If I new the open study of a topic would prove my point I would say lets discuss!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-18-2003 1:06 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 111 of 111 (67383)
11-18-2003 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Adminnemooseus
11-18-2003 1:06 PM


Topic closing, at least for a while
quote:
I'll leave the topic open, to see if it gets back on track (my bet - it won't). Please review the start of the topic, to get a feel for what the on topic theme is.
Will anybody notice message 106?
Adminnemooseus
------------------
Comments on moderation procedures? - Go to
Change in Moderation?
or
too fast closure of threads

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-18-2003 1:06 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

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