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Author | Topic: Can You define God? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Straggler Member Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
What definition of the term "god" are you applying to come to all these assertions?
jar writes: If GOD exists then it is not a human construct. Well I could just as legitimately say that if Bilbo Baggins exists then he is not merely a human construction.
jar writes: All God(s) and god(s) are just human constructs. Anything defined as unknowable is by definition a human construct (whether it exists or not). How could it possibly be otherwise?
jar writes: They are different from hobbits because humans designated them a God(s) or god(s). If humans designated me a god ala 'The Life of Brian' I wouldn't actually be a god would I? Human designation is not the defining criteria here.
jar writes: It really is that simple. If you define something as unknowable then it must be imagined because there is no other source you can claim for the notion of it's existence. It really is that simple.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Unknowable is an indication that I cannot define GOD.
Yes, if Bilbo Baggins actually exists then Bilbo Baggins is not a human construct. Very good. Maybe you are learning.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Straggler Member Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
jar writes: Unknowable is an indication that I cannot define GOD. But you have. Vaguely. He is the "unknowable" creator of all that is seen and unseen.
jar writes: Yes, if Bilbo Baggins actually exists then Bilbo Baggins is not a human construct. Explain to me how this "unknowable" GOD you speak of is any more or less of a human construct than Bilbo Baggins...?
jar writes: Maybe you are learning. Educate me oh wise one....
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I have repeatedly told you that I cannot, at least while I am alive, know anything of the attributes of GOD.
I have told you repeatedly that I believe GOD is the creator of all that is, seen or unseen. If Bilbo Baggins exists then Bilbo Baggins would not be a human construct. If GOD exists (I may even have mentioned that to you) then GOD is not a human construct.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Straggler Member Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
I will readily agree that you have repeatedly said lots of things. But all of them are just unjustifiable assertions.
jar writes: I have repeatedly told you that I cannot, at least while I am alive, know anything of the attributes of GOD. Explain to me how this "unknowable" GOD you speak of is any more or less of a human construct than Bilbo Baggins...?
jar writes: I have told you repeatedly that I believe GOD is the creator of all that is, seen or unseen. Sure. And I ask you why that belief is any more worthy of consideration than Gandalf as the creator of all that is seen and unseen.
jar writes: If Bilbo Baggins exists then Bilbo Baggins would not be a human construct. Do you agree that Bilbo Baggins is very probably just a human construct?
jar writes: If GOD exists (I may even have mentioned that to you) then GOD is not a human construct. Well so you relentlessly assert. But whether GOD exists or not what definition of "god" are you applying such that GOD doesn't qualify as a god? That is the topic here and you seem very unable to answer it...
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
By their fruits (merit badges) ye shall know them. We can easily define a religion, or a way of life, without making it a fan club to some deity. The question is, why define God in such a way that He needs fans?
Yeah but what good is a religion with no power and no Deity? All we have left is boy scout merit badges...hardly the stuff to follow devoutly.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Please show me where I have ever suggested that GOD should be considered by you or anyone else.
I answered it, you seem incapable of understanding. NMP. Edited by jar, : No reason given.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Straggler writes: So if an actual creature existed on a planet 100 billion light years away, they would have to be a human construct? I don't follow your line of logic. Anything defined as unknowable is by definition a human construct (whether it exists or not). How could it possibly be otherwise? All jar seems to be saying is that it is possible that a Creator could exist whether or not all, some, or one human "constructed" the idea. It is irrelevant who believes in such a Deity. It is irrelevant who can or cannot even imagine such a Deity. IF this Deity exists, it exists regardless of our beliefs, perceptions, logic, or ability to frame an issue. And if not, then not. Period. Edited by Phat, :
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I think that what Straggler is trying to prove to us is that the "construct" itself is a human construct. That in order for GOD to exist, we humans need awareness. Otherwise we would be unaware and thus unable to objectify such an idea...thus rendering the idea as questionable.
I can see where GOD could exist regardless of my acknowledgement, but one could argue that my very acknowledgement of such an idea amounts to a prior human construct. Does that make sense?
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8513 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
So if an actual creature existed on a planet 100 billion light years away, they would have to be a human construct? Since such a thing is "unknowable" then any attributes assumed, like "existance" and 100 billion ly, are in fact the constructs of a very specific human. You.
IF this Deity exists, it exists regardless of our beliefs, perceptions, logic, or ability to frame an issue. And if not, then not. Period. Again, since attribues are assigned, such as "unknowable", "exists" and "creator" all without evidence then these attributes, and the god to which they refer, cannot be refered to as other than constructs of the human imagination. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Not to me.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
you are just saying that because this is faith&belief!
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Straggler Member Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
A supernatural creator of the universe (etc.) is a god by pretty much any conventional definition you can find.
What you have done is invent your own self serving terminology in an act of definitional mastrurbation. But you don't even seem to be able do that whilst maintaining a consistent position. How can you be a theist if you don't believe in the existence of any god(s)?
jar writes: I answered it, you seem incapable of understanding. Inventing your own meanings of words and then insisting that you are right isn't really a valid position now is it? You have no problem pointing out the stupidity of this when creationists do it so why engage in this sort of nonsense yourself?
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
As I have explained to you, I am the source of the definition I am using.
It really is that simple.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Straggler Member Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
If something is unknowable, imperceivable etc. etc. etc. then where did any idea that it exists come from?
Imagination. Obviously. It cannot, by definition be otherwise can it? Now by some fluke of blind random chance one may have imagined something that conceivably exists out there. Maybe there is a place out in the universe called Middle Earth full of hobbits and wizards etc. etc. But I would suggest it unlikely.......Wouldn't you?
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