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Author Topic:   Flood Geology: A Thread For Portillo
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 121 of 503 (676643)
10-24-2012 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by mindspawn
10-24-2012 1:36 PM


Re: Discrepancy?
Four links that show archaeological evidence in early civilizations for their knowledge of dinosaurs. Dinosaurs were depicted in pottery and architecture in the same manner as other animals, as if their presence was just as common at that time. (Post 110)
Pictures of dinosaurs? That's your evidence?
Dinosaurs also show up in the Flintstones and I used to play with plastic models of dinosaurs. And yet nobody I know has ever seen a Pterodactyl or a Brachiosaurus.
I'm sorry for dragging the discussion any further off topic. I see that this thread is supposed to be about geography.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by mindspawn, posted 10-24-2012 1:36 PM mindspawn has replied

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mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 122 of 503 (676645)
10-24-2012 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Percy
10-24-2012 9:05 AM


Hi Percy, I see you are asking questions that I have already answered, if you could re-read some of the posts, I will answer any questions you feel are still outstanding. Rohl dealt with archaeology and the dating of early civilizations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Percy, posted 10-24-2012 9:05 AM Percy has replied

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mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 123 of 503 (676647)
10-24-2012 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by NoNukes
10-24-2012 1:47 PM


Re: Discrepancy?
No problem, but look at those links in post 110. I find them fascinating. These are not just pictures, but archaeological observations.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 124 of 503 (676649)
10-24-2012 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by mindspawn
10-24-2012 1:53 PM


Re: Discrepancy?
No, they are misrepresentations of what is actually there. But there are threads on that as well. I'll try to find a link for you.
Found one. See Dinosaurs and man lived together, which destroys the theory of evolution.
Edited by jar, : add link

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 125 of 503 (676650)
10-24-2012 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by mindspawn
10-24-2012 1:53 PM


Re: Discrepancy?
No problem, but look at those links in post 110. I find them fascinating. These are not just pictures, but archaeological observations.
Those ancient civilizations found the fossilized bones of those dinosaurs, not living ones.
Its like with the cyclops stemming from a wooly mammoth skull:
That's not actually an eye socket there in the middle, but we can see how ancient civilizations would have thought it was.
It is fascinating to see a stegosaurus in some old rock art. But they got that imagery from finding a skeleton, not from living with them.
Fun fact: The time between when the stegosaurus lived (150 mya) and when the T-Rex lived, is longer that the time when the T-Rex lived (65 mya) and right now. We are closer in time to the T-Rex than the T-Rex was to the stegosaurus.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 126 of 503 (676661)
10-24-2012 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by mindspawn
10-24-2012 8:27 AM


To Dr Adequate, some of the Permian strata were laid down by the flood, but mainly the PT boundary corresponds to the flood.
Thanks.
On the other hand, this means that you're somwhat off-topic. 'Cos "flood geology" is not merely the belief that the flood happened, it's the attempt to explain away the geological record in terms of the supposed effects of the flood. Anyone who identifies the flood with the PT boundary is not trying to do this.
---
Now, there's a reason why the "flood geologists" try to do this. You, it seems, are a young-Earther, and yet you ascribe most of the geological column to perfectly normal non-flood processes.
But we can measure the rate of ordinary processes: for example we can measure the rate of deposition of pelagic sediment using one of these things (it's called a sediment trap).
Depending on which part of the ocean you're looking at, and which sediment, the three main kinds of pelagic sediment (pelagic clay, siliceous ooze, calcareous ooze) accumulate at a rate of about 10-50 mm per thousand years.
Now here, for example, are the White Cliffs of Dover ...
... which are made of calcareous ooze. That is, they are chalk. Which accumulates at no more than 50 mm per thousand years.
You see the problem? This is why young-Earthers usually turn to "flood geology" --- they are dimly aware that they can't ascribe the geological record to ordinary geological processes, because when you do that you have to concede that the Earth is not in fact young.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by mindspawn, posted 10-24-2012 8:27 AM mindspawn has replied

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 127 of 503 (676662)
10-24-2012 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by mindspawn
10-24-2012 1:32 PM


Bottlenecks
Could you be more specific? When I learn of bottlenecks of certain animals (cheetahs) I see this as occurring relatively recently.
Yeah, but why is it always cheetahs? We point out that if the Ark story was true, every species would show a bottleneck. Creationists reply: "Well, cheetahs did, so there's your evidence of a flood". But cheetahs are singular and unique in this matter, that's why you guys only ever mention cheetahs. If the Ark story was true, every species would demonstrate a bottleneck, but in fact cheetahs are the exception and not the rule, which is why you have to go on talking only about cheetahs.
---
Again, we are wandering from the topic, which was quite specific. If you'd like to start a new topic called something like" Mindspawn's Five Favorite Arguments In Favor Of The Flood", then I'm sure the moderators would promote it. But this thread is meant to be about flood geology --- the attempt to explain away the facts of geology in terms of the flood causing the geological record.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 128 of 503 (676670)
10-24-2012 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by mindspawn
10-24-2012 8:41 AM


In the one is found Carboniferous fossils, in the other , Permian fossils.
Why don't we find modern species in either of these deposits? Why can't we find modern wading birds or modern mammals in these deposits? We can't even find flowering plants in either of those deposits. Why is that?
How does a flood sort fossils in a way that reflects post flood survival? Why is it that those buried deepest in the fossil record had the least chance of living after the flood?
Small plants can sink quickly, suspended silt would sink too. It is only logical that the fossilisation or coalification would be in layers as the flood waters settled and the sediment settled and the various categories of dead organic material sank to the bottom. As you say, this is observed in the layering of the Permian deposits.
Surely some of those plants would include flowering plants, would they not? Why can't we find any?

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 129 of 503 (676671)
10-24-2012 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by mindspawn
10-24-2012 1:14 PM


Re: Discrepancy?
It would have been refreshing to see your arguments against compressing everything from the early Triassic through to current , into 4500 years?
It would be very refreshing to see the evidence that these layers were laid down by a global flood. All we have so far is empty assertions that start with "I believe . . .". Where is the evidence?
I have tried to show you evidence for dinosaurs being concurrent with human civilizations and I am prepared to answer any further discrepancies you may pick up.
What we don't have is humans and dinosaurs in the same strata. Why is that? We can find humans and bison together. We can find humans and mammoths together. So why not humans and dinosaurs in the same strata?

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 130 of 503 (676672)
10-24-2012 4:08 PM


In before Paluxy.

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 131 of 503 (676673)
10-24-2012 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Dr Adequate
10-24-2012 3:10 PM


White Cliffs of Dover
Mindspawn, here's a short essay from 144 years ago that expands on Dr A's mention of chalk:
http://aleph0.clarku.edu/huxley/CE8/Chalk.html
That was written before my grandfather was born, and still explains quite plainly why your "theories" are bunk.

"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

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 Message 126 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-24-2012 3:10 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

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mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 132 of 503 (676684)
10-24-2012 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by New Cat's Eye
10-24-2012 1:47 PM


CS can you post your evidence for the lack of bottlenecks? Are there more than 14 alleles found in certain large non-aquatic organisms? Have you any other evidence?

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mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 133 of 503 (676685)
10-24-2012 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by jar
10-24-2012 2:00 PM


Re: Discrepancy?
I'm not dealing with other threads. Just this one. Sorry I'm already stretched too thin here.

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mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 134 of 503 (676686)
10-24-2012 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by New Cat's Eye
10-24-2012 2:07 PM


Re: Discrepancy?
We will have to agree to disagree on those dinosaur depictions. When most civilizations depict their concurrent animals, why do only the older civilizations reconstruct dinosaurs in their art?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-24-2012 2:07 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
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mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 135 of 503 (676687)
10-24-2012 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Dr Adequate
10-24-2012 3:10 PM


Dr A said : "On the other hand, this means that you're somwhat off-topic. 'Cos "flood geology" is not merely the belief that the flood happened, it's the attempt to explain away the geological record in terms of the supposed effects of the flood. Anyone who identifies the flood with the PT boundary is not trying to do this."
You are correct. I am somewhat off-topic, because I am explaining only minimal layers formed by the flood. I can exit the thread if you like or if the moderators think it s best?
Regarding chalk, current rates of accumulation are not appropriate for some forms of coccolithopore which can proliferate chalk production during periods of high co2 prevalence , as per the conditions just after the PT boundary.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-24-2012 3:10 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-24-2012 6:26 PM mindspawn has replied
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