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Author Topic:   Flood Geology: A Thread For Portillo
mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 151 of 503 (676754)
10-25-2012 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Dr Adequate
10-24-2012 10:29 PM


Re: WTF?
You asked me to leave, but you still making points, and so I assume thats implicit asking me to continue to post in this thread?? I will assume you want me to post and not leave, the alternative is that you like to make one-sided points after someone has left a thread, which isn't really fair? As the originator of this thread, which is it?
Lol, regarding current depictions of dinosaurs, i walked straight into this one, I should have rather referred to recent civilizations not current ones (before the fascination with evolution over the last few hundred years.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-24-2012 10:29 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Panda, posted 10-25-2012 8:45 AM mindspawn has replied
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Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 152 of 503 (676757)
10-25-2012 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by mindspawn
10-25-2012 8:36 AM


Re: WTF?
mindspawn writes:
I should have rather referred to recent civilizations not current ones (before the fascination with evolution over the last few hundred years.)
Would you like some examples of earlier civilizations that have artwork based on extinct skeletal remains?

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by mindspawn, posted 10-25-2012 8:36 AM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by mindspawn, posted 10-25-2012 8:56 AM Panda has replied
 Message 163 by Theodoric, posted 10-25-2012 9:47 AM Panda has seen this message but not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 153 of 503 (676758)
10-25-2012 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by mindspawn
10-25-2012 8:36 AM


Re: WTF?
quote:
Lol, regarding current depictions of dinosaurs, i walked straight into this one, I should have rather referred to recent civilizations not current ones (before the fascination with evolution over the last few hundred years.)
You mean like the Crystal Palace Dinosaurs? Crystal Palace Dinosaurs - more than 150 years old, commissioned before Darwin published.
And these, unlike your examples, definitely are dinosaurs and other extinct species (even if the iguanodon reconstruction is famously inaccurate)
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 154 of 503 (676762)
10-25-2012 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by Coragyps
10-24-2012 6:37 PM


Chalk
Coragys I feel the burden of proof is on you in this particular matter. You are the one claiming that under all post-PT boundary situations, chalk cannot produce fast. Even when conditions cause them to proliferate. What therefore limits the populations of coccolithopores to producing chalk at less than 15cm a year? 15cm a year would be enough to create those chalk deposits.
These organisms were abundant during the late cretaceous compared to today:
Coccolithophorida | algae | Britannica
"The coccolithophores became so abundant in the Late Cretaceous that vast quantities accumulated to form the substance for which the Cretaceous Period was namedchalk."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Coragyps, posted 10-24-2012 6:37 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
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mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 155 of 503 (676764)
10-25-2012 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Panda
10-25-2012 8:45 AM


Re: WTF?
Yes I would, just for curiosity sake. It won't really add to either argument, my point wasn't a good one. (easy to see in retrospect - haha)
Edited by mindspawn, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Panda, posted 10-25-2012 8:45 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Panda, posted 10-25-2012 9:06 AM mindspawn has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 156 of 503 (676765)
10-25-2012 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by mindspawn
10-25-2012 8:56 AM


Re: WTF?
mindspawn writes:
Yes I would, but only from the last 1000 years. Any earlier then you would be making my point for me, that dinosaurs could have recently become extinct.
But that is not your argument - that is simply your claim: humans and dinosaurs co-existed.
Your argument is that images of dinosaurs proves that dinosaurs and humans co-existed.
This is clearly not true, as Dr. A's images show.
Your argument has been invalidated.
Your claim is unsupported.
{abe}
And here's a statue from around 1000AD:
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by mindspawn, posted 10-25-2012 8:56 AM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by mindspawn, posted 10-25-2012 9:24 AM Panda has replied
 Message 161 by mindspawn, posted 10-25-2012 9:44 AM Panda has replied

  
mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 157 of 503 (676768)
10-25-2012 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by Percy
10-24-2012 7:52 PM


Percy, I referred to the Permian and the P-T boundary.
At the P-T boundary there was a marine transgression, Siberian traps (volcanic rainfall), melting glaciation, a large death event, changing sedimentation in flood plains, a magnetic reversal (cloud seeding). The world change from cold and wet, to desert-like Triassic conditions. There were marine and non-marine fungal spikes.
Edited by mindspawn, : No reason given.
Edited by mindspawn, : correcting wording

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Percy, posted 10-24-2012 7:52 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Percy, posted 10-25-2012 10:27 AM mindspawn has replied

  
mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 158 of 503 (676771)
10-25-2012 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Panda
10-25-2012 9:06 AM


Re: WTF?
It guess it could be possible for those ancient civilizations to find dinosaur bones and make perfect reconstructions of them and how they fit together. Its possible those ancient civilizations had a good understanding of skeletal structures and could depict these accurately on temples and pottery etc. So yes my point was not 100% conclusive.
Moving on, what about carbon dating dinosaur bones, recent dates were found through carbon dating that contradict the standard view on their ages:
C-14 Dating

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Panda, posted 10-25-2012 9:06 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 159 of 503 (676772)
10-25-2012 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by mindspawn
10-24-2012 1:36 PM


Re: Discrepancy?
Four links that show archaeological evidence in early civilizations for their knowledge of dinosaurs. Dinosaurs were depicted in pottery and architecture in the same manner as other animals, as if their presence was just as common at that time. (Post 110)
That is not evidence. And those are not dinosaurs.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by mindspawn, posted 10-24-2012 1:36 PM mindspawn has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 160 of 503 (676777)
10-25-2012 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by mindspawn
10-24-2012 1:53 PM


Re: Discrepancy?
These are not just pictures, but archaeological observations.
Bullshit. They are representations of large lizards or fantastical creatures.
Lets get an archaeologists interpretation. Or do you discount any evidence that does not support your preconceived religious ideas?
Wait I found recent evidence. Both pictures and words describing a dinosaur in recent times.
The Enormous Egg
Sorry I doubted you.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by mindspawn, posted 10-24-2012 1:53 PM mindspawn has not replied

  
mindspawn
Member (Idle past 2660 days)
Posts: 1015
Joined: 10-22-2012


Message 161 of 503 (676778)
10-25-2012 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Panda
10-25-2012 9:06 AM


Re: WTF?
Nice pictures. so you believe those Bolivians found a completely intact dinosaur skeleton and created a statue? Like I said, I guess that's possible that those primitive people could recreate an accurate statue from some bones. Good point!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Panda, posted 10-25-2012 9:06 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Panda, posted 10-25-2012 9:54 AM mindspawn has not replied
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Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 162 of 503 (676781)
10-25-2012 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by mindspawn
10-25-2012 9:24 AM


Re: WTF?
mindspawn writes:
So yes my point was not 100% conclusive.
It was not even 1% conclusive: your point was shown to be invalid.
mindspawn writes:
Moving on, what about carbon dating dinosaur bones, recent dates were found through carbon dating that contradict the standard view on their ages:
How reliable is that web-page?
I suspect that ScienceVsEvolution.com have an axe to grind.
For example: they think that C-14 carbon dating (which only dates items up-to ~50,000 years old) would produce an age other than ~50,000 years.
(They also think that Dr. Walter Libby invented radio-carbon dating. *shrug*)
There are limitations to each method of measurement. To ignore them is stupid.
e.g. Take a grain of salt and measure its width with a ruler or its weight with your bathroom scales.
Weighing a car with kitchen scales is stupid.
And dating dinosaurs bones using C-14 is just as stupid.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by mindspawn, posted 10-25-2012 9:24 AM mindspawn has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 163 of 503 (676782)
10-25-2012 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Panda
10-25-2012 8:45 AM


Re: WTF?
Would you like some examples of earlier civilizations that have artwork based on extinct skeletal remains?
He will just claim that dinosaurs existed at that time too.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Panda, posted 10-25-2012 8:45 AM Panda has seen this message but not replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 164 of 503 (676784)
10-25-2012 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by mindspawn
10-25-2012 9:44 AM


Re: WTF?
mindspawn writes:
Nice pictures. so you believe those Bolivians found a completely intact dinosaur skeleton and created a statue? Like I said, I guess that's possible that those primitive people could recreate an accurate statue from some bones. Good point!
Yes, they could have found a skeleton.
Or they could have just imagined it.
People have drawn 'dinosaur-looking' animals throughout history.
To arbitrarily claim that images from 2000 years ago are of extant dinosaurs but images from 1000 years ago are of extinct dinosaurs makes no sense, and simply assumes your conclusion - i.e. circular reasoning.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by mindspawn, posted 10-25-2012 9:44 AM mindspawn has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 165 of 503 (676788)
10-25-2012 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by mindspawn
10-25-2012 9:14 AM


mindspawn writes:
Percy, I referred to the Permian and the P-T boundary.
And you referred to the Carboniferous, too, and you talked about coal layers in both the Permian and the Carboniferous, so I don't know what to think. Would you agree with this statement:
"The P-T boundary represents the global flood."
Assuming that's what you think, I'll interpret the rest in that context.
At the P-T boundary there was a marine transgression...
There are marine transgressions in all eras. Do you mean globally? Do you have evidence that the entire earth was submerged by marine transgressions at the P-T boundary?
...Siberian traps (volcanic rainfall),...
How is this evidence of a global flood?
...melting glaciation,...
I'm not familiar with any evidence for melting glaciers at the P-T boundary, but glaciers advance and retreat all the time. How is this evidence of a global flood?
...a large death event,...
How is this evidence of a global flood? Obviously something caused the mass extinctions. For the K-T extinction an asteroid strike is suspected because we have evidence of an asteroid strike, but the mass extinctions are not considered evidence of an asteroid strike. Mass extinctions are not themselves evidence for any particular cause. So what is your evidence that the P-T extinction event was caused by a global flood?
...changing sedimentation in flood plains,...
I'm not familiar with this evidence. Did the sedimentation in flood plains change in ways indicating a marine environment throughout the world at the P-T boundary?
...a magnetic reversal (cloud seeding).
So a magnetic reversal triggered cloud seeding which in turn triggered rainfall? There are magnetic reversals every few hundred thousand years recorded in the geological layers. Is there any evidence in those layers of magnetic reversals causing a global flood? Besides, the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere is about .01% of the water in the ocean - if it all fell as rain at once it wouldn't contribute much to water levels.
There were marine and non-marine fungal spikes.
Non-marine fungal spikes are somehow evidence of a global flood? How can there be anything "non-marine" during a global flood?
Anyway, if you read about fungal spikes in the Dating the extinction of the Wikipedia article on the Permian-Triassic extinction event you'll see that the much of what were thought to be fungal spikes turned out to be something else.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by mindspawn, posted 10-25-2012 9:14 AM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by mindspawn, posted 10-25-2012 1:04 PM Percy has replied

  
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